Gel cel batteries & alternators

[Shinok]

Hey folks,

Don't flog me for this, but our new boat is not a Cape Dory! You guys generally have good advice, though, so I'm gonna ask this anyway

Our new boat has 3-battery bank, the two house batteries are gel cels and the other is the normal starting battery. The alternator is currently only hooked up to the starter, but I'd like to hook it up to all 3.

What is the best way to do this? Will I need some sort of regulator for the gel cels?

[Steve Laume]

Congratulations on selling Mariah and the purchase of your new mystery boat. You really do have to tell us what beauty swayed you away from another Cape Dory.

You haven't given us nearly enough information to be able to help out much. I am pretty sure all of the batteries are hooked up to the alternator so you need to dig around a bit more.

I have always been told that all batteries should be of the same type. All Gels, AGMs or flooded cells. So if you have a mix, that might not be a good thing. Some where in your charging system you should have a echo charger or a duo charger or some such thing to pass the charge along to the house bank.

When I redid Raven's charging system, I used Jack Rabbit for their technological expertise as well as most of the components. My system consists of the alternator, an external regulator, the echo charger, two AGM house batteries and a AGM start battery. The alternator runs directly to the house bank and the echo charger takes care of the start battery.

Both the external regulator and the echo charger are only about the size of a couple of granola bars stacked on top of each other. I mounted mine in the back of the cabinet next to the electrical panel. I chose this spot because it wasn't too hot, it is dry ,out of the way and is pretty central to the rest of the electrical system. They would not be that easy to find if you were not looking for them.

You must have something like this on the boat already or you would have a dead house bank, Steve.

[Cathy Monaghan]

There should be some kind of regulator there now, do you know what kind it is? Also, are the two banks of the same voltage -- both banks equal to 12 volts or both equal to 24 volts? You should try to keep all of the batteries as the same type (all liquid acid, or all Gel, or all Glass Mat). You'll also need a 4-position battery switch (called a dual selector switch) which includes the positions for "1, All, 2, Off". Decide which battery bank will be "1" and which will be "2".

We have three batteries in two banks on our CD32. The house banks is comprised to two 6-volt batteries which are connected in series (not parallel) to equal 12 volts. Our starting battery is a 12 volt. [If all three of your batteries are 12-volt batteries, the 2 batteries that make up your house bank will be wired in parallel.]

Hopefully this image will help (note that a battery isolator is also shown in the image below):



Here's a typical 4-position battery switch:



Hope this helps.

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Adamhagan]

When I redid Raven's charging system, I used Jack Rabbit for their technological expertise as well as most of the components. My system consists of the alternator, an external regulator, the echo charger, two AGM house batteries and a AGM start battery. The alternator runs directly to the house bank and the echo charger takes care of the start battery.

Both the external regulator and the echo charger are only about the size of a couple of granola bars stacked on top of each other. I mounted mine in the back of the cabinet next to the electrical panel. I chose this spot because it wasn't too hot, it is dry ,out of the way and is pretty central to the rest of the electrical system. They would not be that easy to find if you were not looking for them.

You must have something like this on the boat already or you would have a dead house bank, Steve.

HI Steve,

Any chance you have a picture of your set up?

Thanks,

Adam

[Shinok]

Thanks for the info folks, I'll take a better look at it this week. I like the idea of using an echo charger.

I am fairly certain the alternator is only hooked up to the starter battery, which I assume is because the starter is not a gel battery and the two house batteries are. The batteries are fairly recent (in the last year). It's not ideal, but we'll get it there one way or another. Right now, the house batteries are only hooked up to the shorepower charger.

Congratulations on selling Mariah and the purchase of your new mystery boat. You really do have to tell us what beauty swayed you away from another Cape Dory.

The boat is a Golden Gate 30, a Chuck Burns design that was built under several names (Bodega 30, Golden Gate 30, Bay Island 30, and Farallon 29). Most of the companies that built the boat went under over the years, but the design kindof lingered until the last manufacturer went bellyup in the 80s.

We were enamored with the design when we went aboard a Bodega 30 about 2 months ago, I've not seen another full keel boat that had such a functional interior layout in 30ft. The Bodega had 5 berths, a full galley (stand in), and nav table. We pretty much immediately realized that we needed to move up to another boat if we were going to spend any kind of time living aboard. We wanted to emphasize build quality and safety over interior, but the Carl Alberg interior below 33ft just didn't work for us, there wasn't enough space and the layout was difficult for us to make work living aboard.

We contemplated reworking Mariah's interior to our suiting, but decided that, at the end of the day, we were better off just moving to another boat. The other issue being that we couldn't spend the money necessary to get another boat that had the interior we wanted (CD33, PSC31, etc). The price of the GG30/B30 was more in our range, but had everything we wanted. We ended up finding the GG30 and were kindof surprised, since there aren't many on the East Coast, the boat was stripped in 2010 and fitted with a new 2YM15, all new electrical, plumbing, new interior, dodger, fridge, hot water, etc. The boat needs a little work here and there, but for the most part, it's completed and has everything the two of us need. The interior layout of the GG30 is very different than the Bodega we looked at, but it was something that still worked much better for us.

The space down below is created by a MUCH smaller cockpit, I'd say it's about 3ft shorter than the cockpit in Mariah, but for the two of us, that isn't an issue. We love all of the CD boats, but with recent changes in our life, we'll be able to cruise more and the GG30 fit our needs a lot better than other 30ft boats in our price range.

Here are some pictures:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1147519397 ... 64bM2dOYLg

She does have bronze portlights, does that mean I can still ask questions here?

[Ken Cave]

When I purchased Dragon Tale back in 2000, it came with four wet cells and a gel for a starter battery.
The appraiser told me to be careful, as they charge differently. Sure enough, the gel battery started bulging on the sides after three months of use. I swapped it out for a wet cell, and that actually lasted ten years! Can't say that for the four 6 volt house batteries.

In order to charge your battery bank you will need an isolator, or, as Defender has in their new catalog, an Battery Distribution Cluster. My boat came with an isolator, and it has worked fine for the last 14 years.

Wet cells are great as long as you maintain them. They do need to be checked for water once in a while.

Hope this helps

Ken Cave

[Maine Sail]

Hey folks,

Don't flog me for this, but our new boat is not a Cape Dory! You guys generally have good advice, though, so I'm gonna ask this anyway

Our new boat has 3-battery bank, the two house batteries are gel cels and the other is the normal starting battery. The alternator is currently only hooked up to the starter, but I'd like to hook it up to all 3.

What is the best way to do this? Will I need some sort of regulator for the gel cels?

For the longest life with GEL batteries, and they can last longer than just about any other type when properly charged, do not charge at more than 14.1V and use temp compensation. They also float pretty high at 13.8V..

You will want a good charger and a regulator like a Balmar.. Temp compensation is also highly recommended..

Are you sure they are GEL and not AGM? GEL's are pretty rare these days and even more money than AGM..

[Shinok]

[
Are you sure they are GEL and not AGM? GEL's are pretty rare these days and even more money than AGM..

I'm really glad you asked that question, because I went and double checked, they are all AGM.

The delivery captain that did the sea trial with me told me they were gel, I just took him at his word. I checked with the manufacturer, Northstar, and they are all AGM.

[Maine Sail]

[
Are you sure they are GEL and not AGM? GEL's are pretty rare these days and even more money than AGM..

I'm really glad you asked that question, because I went and double checked, they are all AGM.

The delivery captain that did the sea trial with me told me they were gel, I just took him at his word. I checked with the manufacturer, Northstar, and they are all AGM.

Northstar batteries are an EnerSys/Odyssey TPPL knock off, some call them "Odyssey-Lite", and they can be charged at typical flooded battery voltages, though they do prefer, and perform best at 14.6V to 14.7V @ 77F - 80F in absorption mode.

The actual Odyssey brand of TPPL AGM's can should be charged at higher voltages of 14.6V to 14.7V +/- which results in less sulfation, longer life and faster charging but your alternator probably can't even handle what the Northstar's need so no benefit loss on that point..

[Shinok]

[
Are you sure they are GEL and not AGM? GEL's are pretty rare these days and even more money than AGM..

I'm really glad you asked that question, because I went and double checked, they are all AGM.

The delivery captain that did the sea trial with me told me they were gel, I just took him at his word. I checked with the manufacturer, Northstar, and they are all AGM.

Northstar batteries are an EnerSys/Odyssey TPPL knock off, some call them "Odyssey-Lite", and they can be charged at typical flooded battery voltages, though they do prefer 14.4V to 14.5V @ 77F - 80F in absorption mode.

The actual Odyssey brand of TPPL can be charged at higher voltages (14.7V +/-) witch results in less sulfation, longer life and faster charging but your alt probably can't even handle the Northstar's so no benefit loss on that point..

Good info, thanks!