self-tailing winch

[Steve]

hey,
anyone have good experience as to what size ST winch is best suited for the CD27 and its mounts? I am seriously considering the Lewmar 16's since I mainly use a working jib in moderate winds for now; anyone got a pair for sail? thanks!
still a newbie,
steve
'aigen'
honolulu, HI



aigen@hawaii.rr.com

[Warren Kaplan]

hey,
anyone have good experience as to what size ST winch is best suited for the CD27 and its mounts? I am seriously considering the Lewmar 16's since I mainly use a working jib in moderate winds for now; anyone got a pair for sail? thanks!
still a newbie,
steve
'aigen'
honolulu, HI

Steve,
I replaced the standard Lewmar 7s that came with the boat with 2 Lewmar Self Tailing 16s about 3 years ago. They work great.
A couple of observations;
The base of the Lewmar 16s ST fit on the winch stands already in place. You'll need to drill new holes in the stand as the holes in the base of 16s don't line up with all the holes in the stand. That's no big deal.
The Lewmar 16s are single speed winches but I only have a 110% genny and I don't need anything else.
The Lewmar 30s (next size up from the 16s I believe) would be nice especially with a bigger headsail. More power and they are 2 speed. But the base doesn't fit on the stand.
Just to repeat myself, I am very happy with the Lewmar 16 STs on my CD27

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166 1980
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Armond Perretta]

hey,
anyone have good experience as to what size ST winch is best suited for the CD27 and its mounts? I am seriously considering the Lewmar 16's since I mainly use a working jib in moderate winds for now; anyone got a pair for sail? thanks!

I go along with Warren on this. Unfortunately the winch manufacturers change the number system and design often so I'm not sure my comments reflect the curret models.

My CD 28 shipped with Lewmar 10 winches (non-ST, one speed bronze). The bases were large enough to mount a pair of Lewmar 30 ST 2-speed winches. I added another smaller base aft on the coaming and re-mounted the 10's there for the spinnaker.

I think you will be happier in the long run with the 30's which are 2-speed (15:1 and 30:1) for this boat. However so much has changed since I did this that you will probably have to see what is currently offered.




Cruising an Ocean - s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
kerrydeare@REMOVEbigfoot.com

[Warren Kaplan]

hey,
anyone have good experience as to what size ST winch is best suited for the CD27 and its mounts? I am seriously considering the Lewmar 16's since I mainly use a working jib in moderate winds for now; anyone got a pair for sail? thanks!

I go along with Warren on this. Unfortunately the winch manufacturers change the number system and design often so I'm not sure my comments reflect the curret models.

My CD 28 shipped with Lewmar 10 winches (non-ST, one speed bronze). The bases were large enough to mount a pair of Lewmar 30 ST 2-speed winches. I added another smaller base aft on the coaming and re-mounted the 10's there for the spinnaker.

I think you will be happier in the long run with the 30's which are 2-speed (15:1 and 30:1) for this boat. However so much has changed since I did this that you will probably have to see what is currently offered.

Armand,
No question that the bigger winches make things easier with the greater mechanical advantage. And the 2 speeds are a nice feature. I replaced the original Lewmar 7s (probably 7:1) with the Lewmar 16s ( I think 15:1). It obviously became better. But you know, when I went from an 8" winch handle to a 10" winch handle cranking in the sail under load became even easier. So, I think there is a little compensation built in by using a longer winch handle with its additional leverage

Warren



Setsail728@aol.com

[Armond]

... replaced the original Lewmar 7s (probably 7:1) with the Lewmar 16s ( I think 15:1). It obviously became better. But you know, when I went from an 8" winch handle to a 10" winch handle cranking in the sail under load became even easier. So, I think there is a little compensation built in by using a longer winch handle with its additional leverage.

Sometimes the larger handle interferes with the dodger, but that's probably just as true with the 8" job.

I just looked at the Lewmar site and the 30ST is around $900 (that's EACH). Yikes. Sell the kids.

[Larry DeMers]

Not sure how useful this will be, but: We replaced our Lewmars with Anderson ST28's two years ago, and find them a fantastic winch. The power of the 28 is perfect for our CD30 with a 140% genoa.
Whatever size you settle on, I would recommend looking at Anderson Winches. They have a 1/2 price sale occasionally, where they will give you a large credit for your old winch..working or not, amounting to a half price new winch.
JSI carries Anderson, as do many others. I am not sure when the sale ends this spring, so it could be soon.

A buck saved is a "good thing"!

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Lake Superior

hey,
anyone have good experience as to what size ST winch is best suited for the CD27 and its mounts? I am seriously considering the Lewmar 16's since I mainly use a working jib in moderate winds for now; anyone got a pair for sail? thanks!
still a newbie,
steve
'aigen'
honolulu, HI

ldemers@wwt.net

[John Ring]

I agree with Larry. I put a set of Andersen 28ST on Tantalus and they are great.

The Andersen 28ST are true two-speed self tailing winches. They also cost a lot less than Lewmar or Harken. Practical Sailor rated then a best buy a couple years ago. They are sized just right for a CD27-CD30.

Best,
John Ring
CD28 Tantalus




CD28 Tantalus

[shinchman]

I am reviving this thread because I am shopping to replace my old Lewmar 7 cockpit winches on my 1980 CD27 with self tailers, and need help from this board -- more with size more than brand.

I currently have a oversized gennoa that came with the boat, probably 140-150%. As far as I can tell, the 1980-era Lewmar 7 has a 1:1 gear ratio and power ratio of 7.9:1. In any kind of wind, it takes a grunt load of effort to sheet in the gennie, and when it kicks up over 20 kts it gets really difficult.

The choices I have picked out are:

Anderson 12ST -- Gear ratio of 1.3:1 and power ratio of 9.5:1
Lewmar Evo 15ST -- Gear ratio of 2:1 and power ratio of 13.8:1
Anderson 18ST -- Gear Ratio of 2.6:1 and power ratio of 18:1 (nixed-would be too slow, I think)
Anderson 28ST, 2 speed -- GR 1.3 and 3.7:1; and PR 9.5:1 and 26.5:1
Lewmar Evo 30ST, 2 speed -- GR 2 and 4.2:1; and PR 13.8 and 29.2:1

My preference would be the Anderson 12ST (which my Dad has on his Pearson Ensign and are awesome). Its a fast winch (1.3:1), with great reputation for holding rope. I think the footprint is fairly similar to the Lewmar 7 and would mount well on the existing brass pedestals. But the gain in power (9.5:1) is not that great. The 28ST would give me the extra power (and as 2 speed also would be fast on the lower setting), but cost significantly more and may not fit the pedestal. Anyone tried a 28ST on the CD27? Interestingly enough, the Andersen winch selection tool recommends the 12ST if you pick "standard" yacht and the 29St if you pick "heavy" yacht.

The Lewmar 15ST would perhaps be the compromise solution for the single speed option, a bit slower but also a bit more power. Yet, from what I read, people say the Anderson 12ST performs as good or better (because of Andersen's ribbed barrel).

What have people installed and what works? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Steve
CD27, formerly known as Persistence.

[roger]

I used a two speed ratcheting winch handle ( available from Defender --paid $200 at the time) to supplement my two speed self tailing winches on my 28 for the 135 headsail. Less effort . Short strokes. Roger

[Sea Hunt Video]

Steve:

I bought two (2) Lewmar 16BBST winches at Strictly Sail Miami last year.

I am not sure if Lewmar still makes them. This is a website that sells them.

http://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/produ ... 16002.html

I did NOT pay anywhere near the price on the website when I bought at Strictly Sail.

The website does give the specs I think you are looking for.

I bought these particular winches because a good friend in NE who has owned a Cape Dory 25D for many years installed these winches on his sailboat and recommended them.

So far, I have liked them a lot. I have not used them in 20+ knot winds.

[Neil Gordon]

A longer winch handle is a lot less expensive than a larger winch. I'm curious though about all the working loads involved...

I'm not worried about being able to exert enough force to break a winch handle, but...

As what load does a winch become too small to hold a line?
At what load does the winch/base attachment to the boat fail?

Are these more or less than the same working load of the sheet? (I'd like to think that my ability to sheet in any further would be lost prior to anything failing, especially under unfavorable conditions.)

[Steve Laume]

Raven still has traditional winches. The originals have become my secondaries and the larger ones mounted further aft now act as my primaries. If you are quick enough when you tack there is very little winching involved. I also have two sets of cleats and the entire set up cost me much less than a set of self tailing winches.

Used non self tailing winches can be had for a fraction of the price of self tailers.

Traditional winches are fairly simple mechanical devices and I really don't mind taking the time to make a few turns around a cleat, Steve.