wet keel

[David Morton]

So, my 25D is hauled and sitting in my front yard on stands. Bilge plug is out and there remains a couple of inches of standing water in it below the open drain hole. I noticed, even after a couple of days on the hard and dry weather, the paint on the outside of hull, below the drain hole, remained wet. The rest of the hull is dry. The glass under the wet spot feels firm, without any blistering. Is this something I should worry about?

David

[NateHanson]

It's probably just water barely seeping out from the garboard plug hole, since the water inside is even with the bottom of the hole. I'll bet if you sponge out a bit of the water, so it's an inch below the hole, the paint will be dry.

[Sea Hunt Video]

David:

Interesting post. S/V Bali Ha'i (1982 Cape Dory 25D, hull #0069) does not have a drain hole in the bilge. At least, it does not have one to the best of my knowledge. Exactly where is your drain hole located in the bilge

I just finished installing a Rule electric bilge pump and, in the process, established an intimate and personal relationship with my small bilge. I thought I knew every little corner, but perhaps not.

Is it possible the drain hole in your CD 25D was installed by a PO Curiosity is my Achilles heal.

[bottomscraper]

Since you say you still have some water in the bilge it may just be new water from condensation, leaking water hoses etc. It might also be sealant failing around the garboard drain fitting. Usually they are held in place by 3 or 4 screws and sealant, not very hard too remove, clean and reseal. I don't believe they were standard equipment. I know on Mahalo it was added later.

[David Morton]

I don't know if the bilge plug was factory, but it is very obvious, Robert, both from inside and outside, maybe 6 " from the bottom on the starboard side. My bilge pump actually drops the water level a couple of inches below the drain so I don't think the seepage is coming from or around the drain hole. I think I'd better dry the bilge and check carefully for cracks. If water was seeping thru the keel shouldn't there be something more as evidence than just damp bottom paint?

[Jerry Hammernik]

You might want to look at this previous thread on the general subject.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... id#p169324

[Carl Thunberg]

Something tells me whoever installed this garboard drain did not do a thorough job of determining where the bottom of the keel sump is. Garboard drains should be installed as close as practical to the bottom of the keel sump. When I installed mine, it was maybe an inch off the bottom. It seems very strange to me that your bilge pump is lower than the garboard drain. You may want to re-glass the hole and re-install a new garboard drain down where it belongs.

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm a big advocate of garboard drains to eliminate bilge odor. Apart from the obvious frost issue, a garboard drain allows you to thoroughly clean your bilge every fall. This was my routine on my former CD30. I would remove the garboard drain plug and then take a hose from inside the boat and hose down the bilge with a sprayer on the jet setting to loosen up the gunk that made its way down to the bottom of the bilge. Then re-install the plug and put in a gallon of citrus cleaner and top off the bilge with water. Let it sit overnight, then remove the plug. Repeat one more time with a mild bleach solution, leave the plug out for the winter. No more bilge odor.

[David Morton]

So, Wielewaal has been on the hard for 10 days now and there is this persistent keel dampness around the garboard drain and also at the rudder, as in the photo. The bilge has been sponged dry.
The question is, how serious a problem is this? Is this something I must fix prior to next season?
I am on a cusp of decision making concerning how much $$ and sweat I should consider investing in this boat, vs shop around for another boat (maybe a 28 or a 30). I think I really need another season to help me decide if the 25D is THE boat. So, I don't want to invest a lot now if I will be selling her next fall. I've tried to take care of the essentials so far, including new sails, furler, running rigging, sanitation hoses.
In my dreams, I drop her off at Great Island Boatyard for a complete refit, re-power, Awlgrip deck and hull, new teak, re-bed all the hardware, new dodger, bimini, etc. Ha!
Meanwhile, I would like her to be very sailable and as reliable as a 30 year old boat can be for another summer and give her a fair chance.
So, is this problem a deal breaker, or just another glitch on my way to 25D perfection?

[Oswego John]

If the boat was mine, I might consider drilling small, maybe 1/8", holes under and around the wet areas of the keel and hull. Then I would apply heat or warm air to the wet areas and watch if they dried out any.

Of course, the boat must be kept inside or under a winter cover to prevent new moisture from entering the hull and keel.

The drilled holes must be resealed after all moisture is gone.

Good luck,
O J

[Steve Laume]

Your picture explains a lot. The garboard drain is attempting to drain the keel and not the bilge as most of us had assumed. There should not be any water in the keel. The PO must have observed this weeping in the past or he would not have installed the drain. That would rule out the drain causing the leaking due to improper installation.

So you have water getting into the keel which is most likely coming from a crack somewhere in the bilge. The solution is not to drain it out at the end of each season but to keep it from getting in there. Check the bilge very carefully for any cracks that would allow water to seep into the keel. These will need to be prepped then glassed over. At that point you should not need the drain at the bottom of the keel. I would remove it and grid a bevel in the glass and leave it until spring so it can dry out. You might want to drill another hole at the wet spot by the rudder and do the same thing. You could leave that area until next year and see if repairing the bilge area allowed it to dry out on it's own. Once everything is nice and dry you will need to build the glass back up in the beveled area and fair it.

This certainly isn't a major problem but it could be kind of a PIA to repair the bilge, Steve.

[Steve Laume]

O. J. posted while I was typing. The heat sounds like a very good idea as do a series of small holes. You would not have to bevel and fill them like a larger hole. The area could be kept dry by duct tapping a piece of plastic above the work area and letting it hang over the holes with the bottom open for ventilation. Try Gorilla brand duct tape. It will stick much better than all the rest and should work even if the bottom paint gets damp under it during the winter, Steve.

[David Morton]

The garboard drain is attempting to drain the keel and not the bilge as most of us had assumed

Steve, I'm not entirely sure what you meant by that. The hole clearly goes thru the hull to the bilge. But, actually, I think the source of the weeping is, as Rich suggested, the garboard drain itself. As I look at the wet area it is clearly circumferential about the hole. There is no backing plate on the inside of the hull, so I guess it doesn't surprise me that failed sealant would allow that much water to leak. I've examined the inside of the bilge pretty carefully and I don't see any obvious signs of cracking or other sources of leaking.
My impression from what you have all suggested is that this is not necessarily a major structural failure and quite fixable. My game plan will be to remove the paint involved in the wet area and allow the hull to dry. I think I will remove the drain fitting, clean the hole and fitting and replace it with fresh sealant. Hopefully that will take care of the problem.

Thanks All,
David

[Steve Laume]

David, I would have imagined that area to be part of the encapsulated keel. If you can see the hole for the garboard drain on the inside, disregard what I said. From the couple of models I have looked at and the pictures I have seen, I made the assumption that the drain was not in the bilge area. This would would make the weeping even less of a problem than if it were in the encapsulated keel area.

I suppose this will not be the last time I am wrong, Steve.

[hilbert]

Just to illustrate where confusion might arise, on a CD28 this hole is about 5 inches below the bottom of the bilge.

[David Morton]

Jonathan, that's an interesting photo. Your draining hole doesn't appear much lower on the keel than my garboard drain, yet you say you are well below the bilge! I'm not sure where the encapsulated ballast is on my 25D, but clearly not under the bilge. In fact, looking at my photo, and realizing that looking inside the bilge the hole is still a several inches above the bottom of the bilge, my impression is that my bilge goes right to the bottom of the keel with just the inch of fiberglass between my bilge pump and the briny drink! I wouldn't have thought there would be such a structural difference between the 28 and the 25D. So does this mean that some models have a void space below the bilge? is there any nautical architectural reason for that?

Another issue. I have never sanded ablative paint before. The net is full of horror stories about toxicity and such. Any one want to offer a tutorial on removing bottom paint? Perhaps the relatively small surface area I need to do makes the worry less? Orbital sander? what grit? any help appreciated!

David