Cape Dory 25D seacocks

[Sea Hunt Video]

G'day Robert.

You have a very difficult job lined up, but everyone's advice is good fun.

I followed Maine Sails excellent instructions in full

Not sure if you need or want to go this far, as you only have the port side to finish.

Noel:

Thank you.

Unfortunately, I have not yet actually removed or serviced any of the sea cocks. I decided to start with the most difficult one to access. This particular sea cock sits exactly where she has apparently sat for 31 years. As of this post, "untouchable".

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A WAY TO PRINT OUT MAINE SAIL'S INSTRUCTIONS I have read them and would think they would help guide me. However, I do not have any way to access the Internet from my sailboat - at least none that this "computer challenged" dummy can figure out.

Yes, everyone's advise is helpful, even the suggestions of my good friends OJ (wait for Fifi to be in Miami) and Steve (tie my arms to rope from the ceiling).

Actually, Joe's idea of removing the sink is a good one. I was talking today with a good friend who has owned a Cape Dory 25D for many years and that was exactly his suggestion for being able to get a little closer to the portside cockpit scupper sea cock.

On a related note, I think I am probably going to have to replace at least three (3) of the wood backing plates. They appear to be just small plywood pieces sort of cut into a circle and are badly degraded. I have thought of buying "teak cover plates" and using them as backing plates for the sea cocks. I found some teak cover plates at:

http://www.buckwoodcraft.com/teak_moldi ... verPlates_

I assume this is OK but would prefer to have some comments from the board before I actually buy them. The shop is located in Marathon (not far down the Keys from Miami).

Thoughts

[Oswego John]

Tadpole Sailor

On a related note, I think I am probably going to have to replace at least three (3) of the wood backing plates. They appear to be just small plywood pieces sort of cut into a circle and are badly degraded. I have thought of buying "teak cover plates" and using them as backing plates for the sea cocks. I found some teak cover plates at:

http://www.buckwoodcraft.com/teak_moldi ... verPlates_

I assume this is OK but would prefer to have some comments from the board before I actually buy them. The shop is located in Marathon (not far down the Keys from Miami).

Robert,
In regard to the "teak cover plates" that you mention, this question comes to mind. Are they made of thin, wooden stock suitable only for aesthetic trim purposes or are they thick enough, strengthwise, to perform the beefing up of the hull at the through hull locations?

Good luck,
O J

[ch.ocallaghan]

When I decided to replace the stbd backing blocks, I chose to use the fiberglass sheet backer method detailed by Maine Sail in http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/backing_blocks - 'Alternative Method - No Through Bolts'. I reasoned that if I was going to go to the trouble of pulling everything apart, I wanted backing blocks that would be an integral part of the hull, and that would not require bolts running through the hull that could allow water in. Using his method will eliminate (8) 1/4" holes (for 4 seacocks) and (4) 1/4" holes for the engine raw water intake. I also used it when I replaced the grounding plate and its backing block (another (2) 1/4" holes.)

The hardest part was cutting the fiberglass blanks - I used a small, inexpensive bench press that I bought at Harbor Freight Tools.

Using teak pads would have been easier, but not as satisfying.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Robert,
In regard to the "teak cover plates" that you mention, this question comes to mind. Are they made of thin, wooden stock suitable only for aesthetic trim purposes or are they thick enough, strengthwise, to perform the beefing up of the hull at the through hull locations?

Good luck,
O J

Good question OJ. May I assume you were provided this question by Fifi

Here is what the website says about their teak plates:


Our 1/2" thick teak cover plates come in handy when you need to hide old fastener holes and the like as you're changing out things like light fixtures, small electronic units and whatnot. Our 1" nominal (7/"-15/16") ) thick covers can be used the same way, and are also hefty enough to serve as mounting blocks and/or backing blocks.

Each plate has a "round-over" radius on one side only. The pieces are undrilled, so you can match hole patterns to whatever your needs are.

I am assuming that when the company says "backing blocks" they are referring to "backing plates". Also, in looking at the photos with a rounded radius, it seems like these would be solid pieces of teak.

You can order them in 1/2" or 1" thickness.

I will be sure to ask this when I talk with them next week. Please tell Fifi I appreciate her thoughtfulness.

[Oswego John]

Sea Hunt,

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A WAY TO PRINT OUT MAINE SAIL'S INSTRUCTIONS I have read them and would think they would help guide me. However, I do not have any way to access the Internet from my sailboat - at least none that this "computer challenged" dummy can figure out.

Robert,

A certain person that I know who speaks with a Gallic accent told me that she has made a copy of Maine Sail's directions. They will be mailed to you via USPS snail express Tuesday AM when the PO opens for business.

She did leave a message for me to foreward to you. She says "xxx ooo". It is either cryptic or written in Latin. I failed Latin in school but I think the letter x stands for ten. Maybe she is talking about thirty circles. I don't know. Doh.

BTW: Robert, check your PM.

O J

[Sea Hunt Video]

Sea Hunt,

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A WAY TO PRINT OUT MAINE SAIL'S INSTRUCTIONS I have read them and would think they would help guide me. However, I do not have any way to access the Internet from my sailboat - at least none that this "computer challenged" dummy can figure out.

Robert,

A certain person that I know who speaks with a Gallic accent told me that she has made a copy of Maine Sail's directions. They will be mailed to you via USPS snail express Tuesday AM when the PO opens for business.

She did leave a message for me to foreward to you. She says "xxx ooo". It is either cryptic or written in Latin. I failed Latin in school but I think the letter x stands for ten. Maybe she is talking about thirty circles. I don't know. Doh.

BTW: Robert, check your PM.

O J

Fifi (Ah, I mean OJ):

Fifi sent me a PM with detailed instructions on how to print out the website from Maine Sail. Fortunately, my next door neighbor and his 10 year old stopped by this morning. The kid looked at Fifi's instructions, pushed 2-3, maybe 4 buttons and the paper started printing. The kid looked at me with an expression that said "dinosaur".

Thanks Fifi (and OJ)

[Sea Hunt Video]

When I decided to replace the stbd backing blocks, I chose to use the fiberglass sheet backer method detailed by Maine Sail in http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/backing_blocks - 'Alternative Method - No Through Bolts'. I reasoned that if I was going to go to the trouble of pulling everything apart, I wanted backing blocks that would be an integral part of the hull, and that would not require bolts running through the hull that could allow water in. Using his method will eliminate (8) 1/4" holes (for 4 seacocks) and (4) 1/4" holes for the engine raw water intake. I also used it when I replaced the grounding plate and its backing block (another (2) 1/4" holes.)

The hardest part was cutting the fiberglass blanks - I used a small, inexpensive bench press that I bought at Harbor Freight Tools.

Using teak pads would have been easier, but not as satisfying.

Ch.ocallaghan:

If I had even 1/10 of Maine Sail's skills (not to mention his tools and work space) I might try to do what he recommends. However, lacking skills, tools and work space, I find myself in the position of trying to make do.

As for holes in the hull, no one, I repeat NO ONE, is more averse to this than I am. However, by replacing 3-4 of the plywood backing plates (they look original-32 years old) I am assuming I will not be drilling any "new" holes in the hull - they are already there.

I am trying to read through Maine Sail's tutorial (now that "Fifi" and the kid next door showed me how to print his website pages) but it is slow reading. Thankfully, there are a lot of pictures. I like pictures.

I may end up hiring a guy who does boat repair, etc., to help me with these sea cocks and backing plates.

[ch.ocallaghan]

Robert,

What got me started was contemplating the $90/hr that the local boatyards charge for this kind of work.

I used a little Black and Decker-like portable workbench that I also bought at Harbor Freight for 15$. It fits perfectly in the cockpit of the 25D after you lift the tiller out of the way. The other tools you need are a bench-size drill press, hole saws (must be bi-metal to cut the fiberglass), small shop vac (to suck up the fiberglass dust), and a dremel with grinding and cutting wheels. You'll also need epoxy resin, hardener and thickener (West Marine or online), and either polyester or epoxy sheets (macmaster-Carr).

If you go the teak/marine plywood route ( I think that plywood would be best ), you will need many of the same tools (minus the fiberglass).

Whichever way you go, you will end up with a much more seaworthy boat at the end of your work. I was shocked at the condition of the old backer plate after I removed it - It was almost crumbling in my hands.

I didn't have any experience before I started either, but I found that my confidence grew the deeper I got into it. Now I'm foolish enough to think I can tackle any project on my 25D.

Chris

[barfwinkle]

Robert you really should use the fiberglass. I replace all of Rhapsody's backing plates and they should never have to be touched again.

It started out pretty simple. I needed to replace the galley sink thru hull and during the process of removing nuts I noticed a bit of rot on the plywood backing plate (original) so I gently "poked" it with a flat tipped screw driver. It crumpled!

You're on the hard, your doing the work anyway, go with the fiberglass And I would do them all

Fair Winds

[Sea Hunt Video]

What about King Starboard instead of either teak or fiberglass

[Bruce Barber]

"Starboard" can't be glued or epoxied. They'll tell you it can be "sealed" with 5200, but I've found that not to be the case (when I made new cockpit locker coamings with it - I bedded them in 5200, but they still leaked at the interface.) You want a good bond with the hull, so the wood or fiberglass route is best.

[rorik]

Hope this helps:
I just removed all of Mathildas thru hulls and sea cocks today and yesterday. The raw water, head and sink bits (3/4") came out easily enough, the others (1-1/2") - not so much.
I resorted to using a hacksaw blade (yes, an angle grinder would have been easier /faster - and more prone to error) to cut the thru hull flange into quarters, stopping just as the blade touched fiberglass. Then, I drove a large screwdriver under the cut flange `til I could grab it with a pair of channel locks and break it off. Breaking off the individual quarters of flange is easy. Just pull straight down.
After that, if you turn the nuts on the retaining bolts just enough to slide a hacksaw blade under the nut and cut a bit of a groove in the bolt from the side, it will also break off with a pair of pliers. Lift the seacock straight up and out of the boat. Tap the bolts down and out.
It sounds more barbaric than it really is.
Make sure you wrap some portion of the hacksaw blade with tape so you don't cut your hand.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Rorik:

Interesting. I was reluctant to start cutting the seacocks as I was hoping to salvage them. However, yesterday I spent about 3 hrs trying to remove the seacock from the Vberth/marine head area. I had complete access to the seacock because I had removed the marine head, plumbing, etc.

I was able to remove the flange nut, jam nut and dog washer without difficulty as well as the tapered plug and handle. Then, things came to stop.

There are two (2) retaining screws/nuts for the base plate of the seacock. One nut came off easy. The other is still there. The nut is frozen solid to the bolt and the bolt is turning freely inside the backing plate. I see a bolt head on the outside of the hull - but only one. I would think there would be 2.

I tried everything I could think of to remove the nut from the bolt, even clamping the bolt with vice grips and trying to move/turn the nut. No luck. Despite full access to the parts, I could not get it to budge.

Anyways, I may end up doing what you did with a hacksaw and purchasing a new seacock from Spartan Marine.

As for the other four (4) seacocks, I am leaning towards just leaving them alone. They do not leak, despite severely deteriorating plywood backing plates, and the ones that need to move do move. The two scupper drain seacocks do not move but are frozen in the open position - which is, I think, how they are supposed to be 24/7/365.

I will try again to work on the Vberth/marine head seacock either Sat or Sun.

[rorik]

Not to be dramatic, but if the "severely deteriorating plywood backing plates" are allowed to deteriorate too far, those holes in the hull will leak under the seacock. And that's a real mess.

I didn't want to replace all my thru hulls and seacocks, but some of them have been lapped enough that they can't be lapped any further according to Spartan. Some of them weeped. Some of them had soft-ish backing plates. The prior owner installed a ball valve directly to one new thru hull.... with what I discovered was a Schaeffer pad eye backing plate.
And because I relocated my sink out of the companionway, I needed to also move the seacock for the sink.
Their condition has bothered me for awhile. It's a pain in the transom to spend the better part of a weeks vacation doing this job, but, it'll be done right and I'll sleep better.

[Steve Bryant]

Robert,

Just curious. Why would you have to replace the seacock if you only have to cut or drill out the bolt holding it in place to remove it? Seems this could be accomplished without damaging the seacock.