GPS, weather fax, charting

[Vincent]

I need some advice. My experience is with big boat racing as a kid, Chesapeake Bay cruising my dad's Bounty ll (Rhodes 41),and 505 dinghy racing in my 30's and 40's. My navigation knowledge goes back to the days of rdf, LORAN, some celestial. I have no gps experience. I want to buy a CD, this summer or next,(depends how the divorce works out,lol) and I intend to do some short-handed ocean cruising. I need to educate myself on gps navigation, and am also wondering about getting weather when offshore. So, I am sorry if this is obvious to some of you, I am a bit of a Luddite with a lot of this interfacing tech stuff. Advice, directions to information sources would all be appreciated.

[Skeep]

Vincent, me too. However, check out this Live Journal of s/v Nereida and its 70 year old single handed skipper Jeanne. In her blog and in her conversations she comments on AIS and her use of informational FAXes and etc. If nothing else but situational awareness I read her and gain an immense appreciation for the way in which she is able to "trap" information that is already on the digital grid for her personal situation in any ocean so far. fyi hop that is a help. http://synereida.livejournal.com/

[eb1smith]

Where did LORAN to? Ha!

Anyway here is a link to a good book on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/Boat-Navigation-R ... ap_title_0

Also there are many different devices to utilize for GPS navigation, I have used my Chartplotter, a GPS that connects to my laptop, and a hand held GPS that I can use with my paper charts. I do only use my GPS as a general location, getting me close to the inlet then using visual navigation from there. There have been cases where boats have come to an untimely demise because the Captain blindly followed GPS.

Weather can be gotten off the internet, I would watch for awhile to see what patterns are developing. Also, you can get information using shortwave radio receiver, such as a Grundig G3 Global Traveler.

NOAA Marine Weather:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/home.htm

Practice here on land so you will have the skills for the sea.

--Eric

[Oswego John]

Things sure have changed from past times when using null and hot from the radio direction finder. Technology is moving at such a blistering pace, the latest electronic thingy that you buy today will probably be totally obsolete in a few years. Not too long go, we all were certain that the moon was made of blue cheese. Now, people are walking on it.

One of the ways that local owners are trying to keep pace with the world of electronics is by signing up with courses given by the USPS or Coast Guard auxiliary. There seems to always have a few people who are well trained in various aspects of what you are seeking. They are only too happy to share their expertise with others.

If the Power Squadron or USCG auxiliary flotilla near you should not have just the course that you want, the local officers can direct you to another flotilla a few harbours away that offers your specific course. Best of all, the price is right.

Good luck with your search.

O J

[Steve Laume]

If you haven't done any navigating since RDFs and Loran, GPS is a whole new world. It makes it incredibly easy to know exactly where you are and it doesn't take a mathematician or a guy named Head Phones to figure out where you are. There are lots of choices out there.

For receiving offshore weather beyond VHF range it seems like you need a SSB radio to start. These are big dollar items with complicated installations and the need for a license to operate it.

If you are doing infrequent and relatively short hops I don't know if it is all worth it. You can get weather forecasts on the internet at home and then go when you have a good weather window. When you are ready to come home you can do the same wherever you are. It would be really nice to have up to date weather forecasting when out of VHF radio range but I have a hard time with the cost to benefits for an occasional offshore run.

It all depends on how you intend to use your boat, Steve.

[John Ring]

In the field of GPS navigation, things have been getting smaller, cheaper, and better for years. I'm sure others with better and more recent understanding of these matters can correct, update, or add to my current thoughts on these issues:

For GPS I'm down to my iPhone loaded with Navionics. The Navionics app cost around $15 and shows your boat's position, speed, and direction on electronic navigational charts that are stored in your iPhone.

None of the other functions or iPhone apps will work at sea, as you are out of cell phone service range. If you really love to send text messages while at sea, check out the little "In Reach" system from Delorme: http://delorme.com/ It looks like a small handheld VHF but isn't - it sends text messages via satellite, not land based cell towers.

I don't (and shouldn't) entirely trust electronic gadgets. I'd also carry my other "GPS," aka a Good Plastic Sextant, and a current year Nautical Almanac, and H.O. 249 sight reduction tables for air navigation. Bring along a bunch of sight reduction worksheets as well as a bunch of universal plotting sheets (both from your home printer). If your celestial is a bit rusty, buy a copy of Celestial Navigation for Yachtsmen by Mary Blewitt. This little instructional book is worth its weight in gold.

I don't think any of the above systems will provide weather info at sea. For that you'll need an SSB radio like the tried & true Icom 802, which isn't cheap. In addition to speaking with people hundreds of miles away, an SSB will receive weather fax, email, and a few other things. An SSB is often linked to a laptop or iPad for increased functionality.

I'm sure by the time you read this there will be other new & amazing gadgets & systems that makes all of the above last week's news.

Cheers,
John
CD36 Tantalus

[Oswego John]

In the field of GPS navigation, things have been getting smaller, cheaper, and better for years.

I'm sure by the time you read this there will be other new & amazing gadgets & systems that makes all of the above last week's news.

Cheers,
John
CD36 Tantalus

Yup. I agree 100%. Don't anyone blink. lol :>)

O J

[Oswego John]

In the field of GPS navigation, things have been getting smaller, cheaper, and better for years.

I'm sure by the time you read this there will be other new & amazing gadgets & systems that makes all of the above last week's news.

Cheers,
John
CD36 Tantalus

Yup. I agree 100%. Don't anyone blink. lol :>)

O J

[Adamhagan]

I just got back from a trip from Oriental, NC to NYC last week and I was less than impressed with the amount of frieghter ships running AIS (let alone fishing vessels).

I installed the Raymarine e7d with 18" radome which communicates with my wheel pilot. I can view all the information on my ipad via bluetooth in the cabin while underway (things are getting way too fancy). Newer radar is extremely useful and shows bouys and vessels with amazing clarity.

Most weather is available online, but for a trip longer than 3 days probably the grundig and this Ap: https://itunes.apple.com/app/hf-weather ... 99597?mt=8

Of course all this tech will probably fail, at night, but not until winds pick up.

[Steve Laume]

I bought a little Grundig portable receiver last year. I was hoping that it would enable me to pick up weather while offshore and listen in on weather routing given to others. I have had virtually no luck with the thing. I played with it a bunch at home and then figured it might work better once offshore. Not really the case. I was up in the cockpit swiveling the antenna around while playing with the very sensitive tuner with little luck. From the research I did it is a very well rated unit. I was expecting much more than random signals from around the world and what seem to be the sounds of fax noise. The SSB world is either very complex or I am missing something.

The unit has a little telescoping antenna that enabled me to pick up radio stations at some distance and broadcasts in languages I didn't understand, but it certainly didn't do what I had hoped it would do. It seems like there are times when certain frequencies are far better than others but how do you ever find the broadcasts that would be of help? Would some sort of halyard hoisted antenna help? Is there a list of frequencies and times for audio weather for certain areas?

I'm not dumb but I don't understand, Steve.

[Adamhagan]

Steve,

If I understand you correctly you DID hear the fax noises. That means you were tuned to the correct station for weather fax.

Here is a video which shows it in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ad7I87vo6E

I will also ad these sites of interest:

http://www.blackcatsystems.com/software ... e/fax.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Y3Q4wlcLY

[Vincent]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I have some homework to do.

[Neil Gordon]

I want to buy a CD, this summer or next,(depends how the divorce works out,lol) ...

Hey, you need to live somewhere... make the CD home and only get a land based place if you can still afford one.

As for nav, if you're experienced with LORAN, the basics of GPS will be easy. Any GPS, even your smart phone, will give you LAT/LON coordinates. That plus paper charts are less than state of the art but totally sufficient.

OJ is right about the pace of change ... pretty much the entire inventory of US charts can be had for a whopping total cost of $9.95, turning every smart phone into a chart plotter.

[joemerchant]

There is the ability and the service is worth it's weight in gold to utilize XM Radio Recievers hooked up to GPS Chartplotters to get real-time weather and radar plotted directly on your chartplotter including winds and directions. We not only utilize it on the boat, but also have it in the car as most of the Ford, Dodge, etc. vehicles with Nav are setup for this feature in the new vehicles. Service is just a few bucks a month and we also get Sat radio while cruising. A trick on the Garmin's is to buy an older 500 series chart plotter that works with the GXM 31 reciver instead of the newer plotters. Reason is you can pick up a GXM 31 for around $100-200 wheras the GXM 51 for the new plotters runs over $500. That means you can buy the plotter and weather for about the same price as just weather on the newer plotter. Even though we use the 740S with radar as the primary plotter on the boat, have an older 540 we picked up with the GXM 31 for about $500 that is used for backup and primary weather. Between the boats radar and the sat radar, it is really easy to plot a course to skirt the little storms and find the best wind.

There is another device that works off of cell signals, but our phones rarely work out there, so never even considered it.

Tactics have not changed since the 80's and 90's with LORAN and SSB Weatherfax, they are just realtime with better results and more points of data. I for one was not a fan of shutting the LORAN C signals off as it was always the tried and true backup to get you back home and beat out GPS for taking you back to a waypoint you have already been to. It was also hard to give up on the idea of paper charts. I don't keep a single paper chart anymore and have three seperate sources on board for electronic charts. We grew up using RDF on the boat and VOR on the airplane, and if you had to follow it, it made for a constant zig zag of trying to keep the needle in the center.

Some of the other really cool things that are now in the hands of the average people are the new devices that allow sending and recieving text messages via satelite or constant updates on your position using Spot.

Even Celestrial Navigation has come of age by using your Smart Phone and Computer, it does all the hard work for you to find your location. Use your smart phone to find the object you plan to sight. Take your sight. Enter the numbers in the computer. Repeat with second sight and viola - you are roughly here.

And no big deal anyway, if you get lost, you can just pull in somewhere and ask for directions - right?

How many people remember when NOAA Weather Radio actually had a real human giving the forecast?

What scares me most out there are the new Blue Chart Vision charts that will plot the best course for you through all "known" obstacles. This allows you to set it to your Autopilot and go, take a nap and when you get up, you will be at your destination. I can't tell you the number of times I have watched a vessel go by and never once saw anyone or able to get anyone to come up on the VHF. I wonder how long before they automate that as well where a computer voice comes up on the VHF and responds to your call on 16 saying the computer sees you and plans to pass to ..... Or press one to pass to port, press two to pass....

Larry Ellison wanted to be able to remotely control his yacht from his office. True story. So, there is a will and there is money behind the will - so..... Think about it.

[Neil Gordon]

>>How many people remember when NOAA Weather Radio actually had a real human giving the forecast?<<

I miss the original synthesizer!

>>What scares me most out there are the new Blue Chart Vision charts that will plot the best course for you through all "known" obstacles.<<

The United States Navy recently lost a perfectly good minesweeper. USS Guardian was exactly where the GPS said and the crew had every reason to believe they were in open water ... sadly, it was the reef that wasn't where the chart said it was.