The subject says it all. My sailing partner thinks heeling makes you go faster. Somebody told me to reef when you see white caps which means the wind has hit 15 knots. What is the straight answer?
Thanks
alewifehouse@mainecoast.net
Heel- When is it too much for CD25? When do you reef?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Neil Gordon
Re: Heel- When is it too much for CD25? When do you reef?
>>Somebody told me to reef when you see white caps which means the wind has hit 15 knots.<<
It might depend on point of sail, too... you can carry more canvas downwind.
I'd find a day when the wind is right on the edge of 15 kts or so, and sail with and without the reef. You might find there's no loss of boat speed with the reef in.
LIQUIDITY prefers sailing on her feet, more or less. She's not very efficient with her rail in the water and lots of weather helm. So I reef the main and leave the full genoa. No loss of speed and it's a lot easier sailing.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
It might depend on point of sail, too... you can carry more canvas downwind.
I'd find a day when the wind is right on the edge of 15 kts or so, and sail with and without the reef. You might find there's no loss of boat speed with the reef in.
LIQUIDITY prefers sailing on her feet, more or less. She's not very efficient with her rail in the water and lots of weather helm. So I reef the main and leave the full genoa. No loss of speed and it's a lot easier sailing.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Heel- When is it too much for CD25? When do you reef?
While heeling at large angles is fun, it is also slow as heck! The air striking the top half of the sail is allowed to slip past the sail, off the top of the sail, due to twist. So the only thing that happens is that you slow down and heel over..marks of a beginner I am afraid.
Cape Dory (Alberg designs only..not Clive Dent!) hulls are all designed around the concept of keeping the heeling angle to about 20 deg. Consequently, the boats are found to be fastest at that point of heel. If the heeling angle increases regularly over 20 deg., then reef..THE MAIN, not the genoa. The main should be reef #1. This keeps the boat standing up, projecting the sail top into the faster upper winds, and limits the heeling angle, giving you the fastest speed possible in those conditions.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Cape Dory (Alberg designs only..not Clive Dent!) hulls are all designed around the concept of keeping the heeling angle to about 20 deg. Consequently, the boats are found to be fastest at that point of heel. If the heeling angle increases regularly over 20 deg., then reef..THE MAIN, not the genoa. The main should be reef #1. This keeps the boat standing up, projecting the sail top into the faster upper winds, and limits the heeling angle, giving you the fastest speed possible in those conditions.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Tom Foley wrote: The subject says it all. My sailing partner thinks heeling makes you go faster. Somebody told me to reef when you see white caps which means the wind has hit 15 knots. What is the straight answer?
Thanks
demers@sgi.com
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Don Carr
Re: Heel- When is it too much for CD25? When do you reef?
I agree with Neil. The CD25 sails best at about 15-20 degrees of heal.
Reefing is a function of sailing comfort, wind conditions and the condition of the sail itself. With the limited sail shape controls found on the 25's I find it easier to downsize the headsail before reefing the main. On a masthead rig most of your power is in the headsail. I generally reef the main in gusty conditions 15-20 knots.
Remember, a certain amount of heal adds the the LWL increasing the theoretical hull speed..especially with the shear on the CD25. However, the law of diminishing returns seems to occur at around 15 degrees. So to sum up:reefing time is when the helmsman begins to loose control of the boat through normal sail trim/helming techniques.Hopefully you will know your boats characteristics well enough to reef before you are on the edge.
carrd48@netzero.net
Reefing is a function of sailing comfort, wind conditions and the condition of the sail itself. With the limited sail shape controls found on the 25's I find it easier to downsize the headsail before reefing the main. On a masthead rig most of your power is in the headsail. I generally reef the main in gusty conditions 15-20 knots.
Remember, a certain amount of heal adds the the LWL increasing the theoretical hull speed..especially with the shear on the CD25. However, the law of diminishing returns seems to occur at around 15 degrees. So to sum up:reefing time is when the helmsman begins to loose control of the boat through normal sail trim/helming techniques.Hopefully you will know your boats characteristics well enough to reef before you are on the edge.
carrd48@netzero.net
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Jim Heldberg
Re: When do you reef?
I like the simple idea that you should reef when you first think you need it. If the wind is building, you'll feel stupid fighting the reefing gear while wishing you'd done it sooner. A buried lee rail and lifelines awash makes a wonderful photo opportunity, and it won't hurt the boat, but all the drama just slows it down and makes it much harder to steer. Cape Dorys, like most boats, sail faster and easier reefed. That's why reefing was invented. Another answer to the "when to reef" questions is: any time you want to slow down. I've even reefed to make it easier to serve lunch. A good reefing system is part of a good boat; reefing skills are part of a good skipper. I like to reef on the stbd tack, while I sit on deck, straddling the mast with the main halyard and reef lines in front of my face. It's not exciting, and that's why I do it. If you're doing anything dangerous, you're doing it wrong.
jimhpac@aol.com
Tom Foley wrote: The subject says it all. My sailing partner thinks heeling makes you go faster. Somebody told me to reef when you see white caps which means the wind has hit 15 knots. What is the straight answer?
Thanks
jimhpac@aol.com
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Richard Feffer
Re: Heel- Clive Dent Reefing Angle
Larry,
Why would Clive Dent reefing angles be different than Alberg (I have one!)? What would be your recommendation on this model? I usually put in the first reef between 15 and 18kts.
Richard
RichFef@Prodigy.net
Why would Clive Dent reefing angles be different than Alberg (I have one!)? What would be your recommendation on this model? I usually put in the first reef between 15 and 18kts.
Richard
Larry DeMers wrote: Cape Dory (Alberg designs only..not Clive Dent!) hulls are all designed around the concept of keeping the heeling angle to about 20 deg. Consequently, the boats are found to be fastest at that point of heel. If the heeling angle increases regularly over 20 deg., then reef..THE MAIN, not the genoa. The main should be reef #1. This keeps the boat standing up, projecting the sail top into the faster upper winds, and limits the heeling angle, giving you the fastest speed possible in those conditions.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
RichFef@Prodigy.net
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Neil Gordon
Re: When do you reef?
>>I like to reef on the stbd tack, ...<<
You can also heave to by backing the jib, easing the main out and lashing the tiller to leeward. The boat will settle down and you can reef the main in relative comfort.
Heave to on a stbd tack and you'll have right of way over most of what you meet.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
You can also heave to by backing the jib, easing the main out and lashing the tiller to leeward. The boat will settle down and you can reef the main in relative comfort.
Heave to on a stbd tack and you'll have right of way over most of what you meet.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com