Beta 14 in a CD 30?

[Maine_Buzzard]

So, I have a chance to install a Beta 14 into Guppy, at a very good price.

Plenty have been installed in CD28s, with great success. Anybody ever drop one into a 30C? What has your experience been?

I'd be using a 3 blade prop. I don't need to beat 30 miles into hurricanes, and will not be running a watermaker/fridge/monster alternator, as she's simply a boat.

I'd prefer a 16, but the wheezing Volvo mD7 is probably making only 9 or 10 right now, and pushes her along well, given the current two blade prop.

[Duncan]

I've heard it's a nice engine, and even better, it's a great opportunity to get a "good price".

My impression, though, is that Cape Dory often under-specified their engines and over-pitched their props. (This seems to explain numerous comments here about overloaded engines and black smoke.)

The rule of thumb I've heard is 2 hp/1,000 lbs, so a 10,000 lb CD 30 might be better served by a 20 hp engine.

In my case, Cape Dory seemed to recognize this ratio when they doubled the auxiliary power for the CD 27 from 7 hp (0.93 hp/1000 lbs/) to 14 hp (1.87 hp/1000 lbs). My experience with the 7 hp engine suggests that this was a smart move.

So, before investing in a new engine and installation, I'd suggest you consider something closer to 20 hp for a 10,000 lb CD 30.

[John Ring]

My 9,000lb CD28 is very happy with her Beta 14 and 3 blade prop. My BZ482 is also turning a 70 amp alternator at the same time, no problem. I think a Beta 14 & three blade would be fine for a CD30. Also, the Beta weighs in at less than 200lbs, compared to the MD7's 400lbs, and the boat sails better with a couple hundred pounds off the aft end of the waterline.

The next size up, the Beta 16, has a longer footprint than the Beta 14, which may make it harder to fit. Despite being 7" shorter overall (motor & gearbox) compared to the Volvo, the Beta 14 took up all the old MD7A engine bed mounting space. I little longer footprint would have been a lot more work in my case.

John
CD28 Tantalus

[rorik]

My Nanni N2.14 (2 cylinder, 14hp) pushes Mathilda at hull speed with a 3 blade Campbell Sailor prop.
I live aboard and Mathilda weighs more than a standard CD28 (about 11,000#) due to books, tools, clothes, etc.

[Klem]

I really like the little Kubota engines although I really don't have any experience with the Beta marinization. If I ever have to do a repower of my CD, it will be with a Beta most likely.

I agree with the above comments about being underpowered. Our MD7A which actually puts out pretty close to the stock power level thanks to a rebuild really isn't quite big enough for our boat. We have to cross a bar everytime we leave the mooring and on some days it is quite rough thanks to the shallow water and strong currents. We have had many days where we simply don't have the horsepower to get out of the bay when otherwise I would consider it not too dangerous to cross the bar, luckily we have always been able to get back in although it takes a while sometimes. We do have a good prop on the boat, we are just underpowered. If I had to pick an engine size for a 30, I would probably pick something like 18-20hp. Given Beta's sizing, I would probably opt for the 20 if it fit (I have heard it doesn't on the ketch but this is only a rumor) and the 16 if the 20 didn't fit.

However, you don't seem to have the option of getting a 16 or 20. A 14 would certainly be an improvement and if you couple it with a really good prop, you would do fine in most situations. Provided that you don't regularly bash out through a rough passage, it would be fine. If funds allow, I would strongly recommend a larger size but if they don't, the 14 is probably a good option.

[Maine_Buzzard]

A Beta 16 is certainly still an option. All in, it would be about $8000 for the 14hp model, which is a little more than half of a new Beta 16 installation. Our slipmates on Nomad have installed a 16 and are very happy.

One factor in going from the MD7 to the Betas is the RPM at full throttle. I probably don't even run my old engine above 2200 RPM, ever, and a Beta will top out around 3500. My mindset is to have a smaller engine running near the top of it's powerband, rather than a big one loafing along, (ignoring reserve power wishes).

The problem I have with the 20 is that the aperture is too small for a prop that can utilize that much HP. In order to load down the engine at WOT, you end up with a steep pitch.

The new cost difference for a 14 vs. a 16 is negligible, so it's easy to make that choice. I was curious to see if anyone ever did put a 14 into a CD30.

Luckily, the Swede is ticking away and I've had two years with no troubles. I also have a spare block and parts if I blow a transmission or exhaust log. If I get the Beta, I'd nose around and see if I could find a used Hurth 150V, and really save some money. I'm comfortable in doing the repower, and would accelerate the job if the Volvo blew. Right now, it's just a matter of leaking seals and nervous watching of the temperature gauge.

Knowing that the 28s are happy with the 14, I'm tempted. Currently I'm working with the owner and Sound Marine to understand the issues.

[gvanbell]

We just splashed our 27 with a new Beta 14. A few observations.

1. If you can get the whole re-power done for $8,000 you should jump at it. Be sure that price includes fuel system, raw water, and drivetrain modifications, though.
2. Unless the engine compartment on the 30 is a lot bigger than on the 27, you might be pressed to get the bigger engine in there. With the deadrise of the transom and a few other limitations, things were a tight fit (especially things like the exhaust and shaft seal).
3. The Beta 14 has power in reserve on the 27 so should be about perfect for the 30. With a 3-blade prop we motor easily at 6 knots running around 2700 RPM. I would imagine on the 30 you could achieve about the same at 3000 RPM or so, which the engine will like just fine.

Since we JUST finished the install, I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. Feel free to email me.

[Ben Thomas]

Are you running the Walters V-drive? and if so, does the quote you recieved include the ZF15MIV (2.13:1 gear ratio) V-drive, because that is a $3700.00 List price option which you will need, if you have the v-drive.
I have the Beta 20 in my CD30 with the ZF15MIV v-drive, plenty of room. I have also made up new stringers for the Beta's that fit onto existing stringers (Volvo MD7A original). that several folks on the board have used with their Beta repower of their 30s.
I was runnning a 13x9" three blade for many years until I switched out for a 4 blade feathering Variprop (13x10") RPMs go right up to sweet spot.
The Beta 14 with v-drive 2.13:1 gear ratio should give you 6 knots with a 13x7" RH 3 blade, the 16 same gear ratio 6.2 knots with 13x8" RH 3 blade and the 20 same gear ratio 6.5 knots with the 13x9" 3 blade.
If I were ever to re-power again I would be tempted to use the 16 rather than the 20. The reason, over powered. If I run throttle up to full RPM (3500) with my prop, I reach hull speed very quickly then the stern starts to squat, However that extra power comes in handy in rough ocean and bar conditons. The 16 was not available when I did my repower in 03.
Motor mounts O.C. on the 14 port to starboard 14.5" fore/aft 9.6"
Beta 16 mounts O.C. 14.5" fore/aft 10.2"
Beta 20 mounts O.C. 14.5" fore/aft 12.5"

The Beta's will fit about 3" more forward and about 2" higher than the Volvo in order for the shaft to align with the output of the V-drive.
Hope that helped.
Ben Oregon Marine Industries (Beta dealer)