Mast head light/deck light

[jack Kelley]

CD 30 mast light not working -have replaced three prong connectors and checked bulbs. Perhaps problem in the light itself. Light appears to be fastened to the mast by slotted screw/bolt. Difficult to remove to access the light itself. Circuit breaker trips whenever lights are turned on.

Appreciate any comments.

Jack Kelley

[Gary M]

Well Jack, it sounds to me like you have a direct short in the wire some where.

I would check the breaker first to make sure it is working properly.(most likely it is)

You could move another circuit rated the same to the breaker to see if the breaker trips on a good circuit.

Then you could do a continuity check from your breaker to the mast step where there is probably a plug, to see if there is a short in that length of wire. (unplug from the wire going up and from the breaker first)

Finally checking continuity from the mast step to the light. (remove bulb first)

They make some nice (but pricey) cordless impact drivers that would probably remove those slotted screws.

A manual impact driver isn't out of the question but they are a little large. Fairly inexpensive though and I use mine all the time to remove frozen screws.

Good Luck and I wouldn't hesitate hiring a rigger to go up the mast and remove the light once I was fairly certain the light fixture is the problem.

Gary

BTW you said "when ever lights are turned on." Are there more then on light on this circuit?

[jack Kelley]

Gary: Thank you for your response.There is only the combo deck and mast light controlled by two circuits-two differant toggle switches on the circuit board.

Jack

[Gary M]

Hi Jack

My assumption is each toggle is a breaker.

My question is does each toggle blow the breaker?

Or does one toggle work and the other blow the breaker?

I guess either way you have the same problem, but if one worked you could consider removing the fixture and move the good circuit to the most important light and abandon the other circuit.

A "dead short" in the wire will cause the breaker to activate as soon as you toggle it on. So where is the short?

If they both blow the breaker you may have a clue, but I'm not sure what the clue means off the top of my head.

The most likely place for a short is where the wire was spliced or a plug was installed or where the fixture was fit.

A short along the wire run is unlikely unless some hardware was installed and a drill and a screw damaged the wire run.

I would guess, most likely in the fixture itself but always try the easiest first.

Normally wires running up the mast have a connection point either on the mast at deck level or just under the mast in the boat interior. You undo this connection point to unstep the mast. From here you can check continuity of the wires back to the panel, and up the mast. Disconnect the wires at the panel before making the test and remove the light bulbs before making the test up the mast.

Is the three prong connector you mentioned at the base of the mast? If it is, unplug it and see if the breaker trips. If it trips the problem is between the breaker and the three prong connector. If it doesn't trip it is starting to look like the problem is between the three prong connector and the light.

When checking the wiring it is a good idea to inspect the wires right at the point where the insulation was cut away. Some times the wires get damaged at this point on even the original installation and let bare copper be exposed. I've seen it happen more then once.

Let us know how you make out.
Gary

[Jim Cornwell]

I've got a related question: All lights on Yankee's mast were on the blink (funny little pun there) at the end of last season, despite recent re-lamping. No breakers tripping, just non functional. Last weekend I tackled the steaming light first, part of a combination steaming/deck flood fixture which I'm sure is an Aqua Signal product. A three-wire cable, swaddled in electrician's tape, looked suspicious so I unwrapped it and found black, white and green 16 AWG wires inside. Initially, I reasoned that black was common and white and green were feeds to my two fixtures from separate breakers in the panel. But a continuity test revealed that any two of these three made a circuit. White and green made my steaming light work again, which was a useful result and suggested that either white or green was the neutral (ABYC color codes not withstanding). So black, which had been part of some circuit in the continuity test, had to be power to something - but nothing lit up. Does this make sense to anyone? Jim.

[Gary M]

Hi Jim,

Where was the "ball of electrical tape" located?

If I assume you were at the base of the mast doing a continuity test is it possible that you were reading:

1)Green to white, through your new bulb
2)Black to white through another unknown bulb or other such thing.
3)Black to green through their connection the positive battery terminal unless the breakers were turned off.

This would leave the question, what is the black wire feeding?

My rule of thumb is when I find an odd set up, I believe it was working at one time and I should pay attention to it even if it seems wrong.

Gary

[moctrams]

Working as a marine electrician, I get the same complaints all the time. When a customer takes the mast down, I get a “trailer”, 4 pin water proof connector for the deck to mast wiring. The connector is about 8 bucks, water proof and failsafe. A lot of folks use “butt connector”, which I refuse to use. The next time the mast comes down, simply unplug and never worry about bad connections again.

[Oswego John]

All lights on Yankee's mast were on the blink (funny little pun there) at the end of last season, despite recent re-lamping. No breakers tripping, just non functional. Last weekend I tackled the steaming light first, part of a combination steaming/deck flood fixture which I'm sure is an Aqua Signal product.

When I go to trouble shoot something, one of the things I usually do is take some pictres of whatever it is that I'm working on before I take it apart. Sometimes I write down on paper things like what colored wire is connected to what other wire. You think that you will remember later on. (Famous last words).

A three-wire cable, swaddled in electrician's tape, looked suspicious so I unwrapped it and found black, white and green 16 AWG wires inside. Initially, I reasoned that black was common and white and green were feeds to my two fixtures from separate breakers in the panel.

This type cable is generally used in AC circuits. The black is the hot feed and the white is the neutral. The green ground wire must be as large as the hot feed. It is alright though to use this cable with DC power. In this case, the green is being used as a circuit conductor, not as a ground. It I were to critique using this cable, I would say to use a larger cma wire size than #16 AWG. You are dealing with a circuit that is, arguably, 60 feet long from breaker up and back to negative buss. Since both circuits are sharing one common negative return, the negative conductor has a double load on it.

But a continuity test revealed that any two of these three made a circuit. White and green made my steaming light work again, which was a useful result and suggested that either white or green was the neutral (ABYC color codes not withstanding). So black, which had been part of some circuit in the continuity test, had to be power to something - but nothing lit up. Does this make sense to anyone? Jim.

If white and green made the steaming light work, the next thing to do is determine which color wire is the steaming light feed and which is its negative return. The next assumption (dangerous) is that the black may be the hot feed for the deck light.

There is a way that you might be able to determine the function of each of the colors of the cable. You are going to probe the wires at the base which go up the mast. No 12 volt power involved. They should be unattached and separated from each other. Set your multimeter to ohms. You will be comparing one circuits ohmage to the other, steaming light to deck light. Since the length of each conductor is identical, wire resistance won't factor into the test. Bulb size as well as two bulbs in series will determine which wires are feeds and which wire is the common return for both circuits.

#1 Measure the ohmage between the white wire and the green wire to the steaming light. Make note of it.

#2 Measure the ohmage between the white and the black wires. Make note of it.

#3 Measure the ohmage between the green and black wires. Make note of it.

Assuming (there's that nasty word again) that both the steaming and the deck light bulbs are good, you should have marked down three individual resistances. One of the ohms should be almost double the other two. This would most likely indicate that the reading was across both bulbs. The two colors used for the high reading are probably the two feeds for the two sets of lights.

The third colored wire should be the common negative return for both light circuits. You can double check on this before splices are made and power is turnd on.

Earlier, I think that you posted that you have a dead short on one mast circuit. You can use the resistance setting on your meter to locate where it is and on which conductor.

Good luck, (knock on wood)
O J

[Jim Cornwell]

Thank you all for such thoughtful responses! Though proud of partial success and a working steaming light, I'll take it apart again and check resistance on each conductor.

Yankee's mast is overdue to be removed for inspection and that will be a perfect time for new wiring, LED lamps (or new fixtures) and a connector at deck level, along with other improvements. It occurs to me that some insulation may have abraded inside the mast, contributing to the perplexing continuity test, though the mast itself didn't complete a circuit when I tested. Hmmm. Jim.