heaving to - third reefs and trysails

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

Lying a hull and heaving too are two different animals. I have hove too a couple of times in 25 knott winds and was able to take napes in the cock pit. On the other hand, recently I tried to drop sail to get some sleep and wound up having to raise the main and heave too in order to get the boat to stop tossing around. The times I hove too I only had one reef in. I did try to heave too when approaching shore at night after 10 days of single handling and found that I could not get the boat to do it. I expect I was doing something wrong but was too tired to figure it out.

[fenixrises]

Hi all,

I am following this discusion with interest.

Since no one has mentioned this so far I will.

There may come a time when it is absolutly necessary to make to windward in strong to very strong winds. In that case a triple reefed main or well set and trimed trysail would be vitally important with a very small storm or "Spitfire" jib.

So far I have never encountered that need, thank goodness.

On FeNIX I had a battenless main w/ 2 reefs. I always thought that by the time a third reef was needed it was time to take the sail down entirely. I also converted the boat to a cutter rig. I did have a trysail but never used it.

I changed SunShine to a cutter. I like the flexibility of the cutter and the smaller sail areas as all my headsails are hank on.

I have a trysail for SunShine, got it on e-Bay. It is brand new and had never been used. It is made for a 36' Beneteau so works great on 36' SunShine. But I would have to use the mainsail track to set it. That is something I would only do under dire circumstances as the main would then not be attached to the mast but depend entirely on lashing it to the boom.

In the future I would like to add a track to the mast for the trysail and then keep it on the track and bagged on deck, ala Hall Roth and Whisper.

As for when to use any combination of sails for different conditions the conditions will determine what you need to do. This is where experience pays off. Practicing under milder conditions with all your potentials is a very wise thing to do. I think having sheets attached to storm sails at all times is a good idea and they can be stowed in the bag with sail. That is one less thing to do as the wind rises and perhaps darkness is coming or already there. Sheeting points should always be worked out before the need arises.

Under normal conditions I think most boats can run before wind up to about 35kts. I have often done this in the three different boats that I have had and made good time to boot.

With FeNIX I ran off in 50+kts but in protected waters so the seas were not more than 12' feet or so. On my sail down to New Zealand from Fiji aboard FeNIX I sailed most of one night and day under poled staysail in 35kts, seas up to 15' and was never pooped. In fact during the circumnavigation FeNIX was never pooped.

The worst conditions I probably met was just after I bought FeNIX and brought her down to FLA from the Cheapeake. I had one day of gale and at the peak about three hours of 50kt winds. I was on a starboard tack just past a beam reach. I had no storms sails at the time.

FeNIX was actually trying to surf on that beam reach under just the working jib. Seas were never more than about 12' or so but were cresting. Often the crests were longer than the boat and FeNIX, George and I were often under water or so it seemed.

That's when I discovered all the leaks in her hull/deck joint.

Most recently I sailed SunShine all of one day from one island to another here in the Philippines in a 35kt wind on a beam reach with just my small yankee and storm jib. Boy were we flying but it was a rough ride and I would not want to do that for days on end.

So I say practice and be as prepared as you can. And as always when conditions are up, speen a minute or two to relax in the cockpit and think through exactly what is is you are about to do.

BTW It is sunshiney and warm here in Subic. This is the NE moonson season so usually clear skys and warm temps but it does cool down at night, usually in the 70's.

Take care,
Fred

[Como No Cruising]

Hello everybody. As some of you know we sold our CD-40 this year, after 15 wonderful years of living aboard and 10 years of a round the world cruise.

Como No was fitted with a 3 rd reef in the main and was cutter rigged, but with out the staysail boom. We chose to get rid of the staysail boom in favor of installing turning blocks and adding an additional winch on the cabin house to handle the staysail. Both staysail and Yankee jib were on roller furling.

We hove to on several occasions on our travels, once with triple reefed main only and also with 3 reefed main and deeply furled yankee. Our experiance was much better with the latter configuration.

Most boats handle differently. We found that we could continue to sail, close reaching off in 40 knot sustained winds, with higher gusts, by setting the 3 reefed main and staysail only. Indeed we were hailed once by a tanker and once by a helicopter, on the same day in the Gulf OF Mexico, and asked if we were okay. We were. It was rough but we kept going and never felt that we were in danger. Our Monitor vane was doing all the steering.

New Zealand to Fiji. We had approximately 18 hours of sustained 35 knot winds with higher gusts. On that occasion we Hove to briefly to make coffee and sandwiches and then continued sailing with the deep reefed main and staysail. Not comfortable, but we never lost confidence in Como NO. Again, the wind vane was steering.

Canary Islands to Cape Verde we were sailing fast in 30 knot winds when one of the steering lines on the wind vane parted. I was below getting coffee when the vessel suddenly rounded up, went up a large wave and fell backwards down the face of the wave. Our rudder overrode the stop and jammed hard over. The conditions were wild, sails flapping and the boat being tossed about violently. The Commodore and I pulled the main down and furled the staysail. We had no control over the vessel and could not get the rudder to turn.
The weather and seas had been rough for two days and we were exhausted. We discovered that Como No was in no danger with no canvas set and all hatched battened down. We turned on our strobe light-masthead mounted and since it was getting on to 0200hours we took to our secure sea berths and actually were able to sleep for 6 hours. When we awoke the conditions had not improved but we set about to attempt to effect repairs.

Repairs involved lashing the helm in its jammed position for safety reasons while I crawled under the cockpit and unbolted the rudder stop to free up the quaqdrant. Luckily we had steerage again, were able to set a partially furled yankee and continue on our way to the Cape Verdes where we made permanent repairs prior to continuing across the Atlantic.

[seadog6532]

I'm still wondering about anyone who has sailed a ketch in extreme conditions. We have for a short while, but never with big breaking seas. Just a lot of wind and less than 100 miles from shore. It is funny how many heavy weather stories you hear about the gulf of mexico. You have to be ready for anything down here.
The things I would like to know about a ketch rig in heavy weather are.
1. 3rd reef or try sail for the main?
2. If a try sail, was an external track attached to the mast?
3. How many reefs in the mizzen? We have on deep reef.
4. What about the jib. Gale sail, or set up an inner stay with a storm stay sail?

I'm also wondering how a CD30 ketch will sail with just the main up. In all the miles we have sailed Arianna we have never tried this. Guess I will give it a shot when I leave for Key West in a few days, but it's looking like I will not have much wind for this passage right now. I'm still window shopping.

[Klem]

We have sailed our CD30K under reefed main only and it still sails relatively well. I consider our heaviest weather sail combination to actually be a double reefed main (the second reef is just over 50% reduction in sail area for that sail). Due to the poor shape of a furled jib and the amount of sail area aft with the mizzen, the boat gets hard to handle in anything over about 30kts steady with the jib and mizzen. Having a smaller jib with good shape and a deep reef in the mizzen would definitely help this.

If I were going to take this boat further offshore, I would invest in a storm jib and a trysail for the main but not the mizzen. If trying to go downwind, a storm jib would be great. Other points of sail, a trysail alone would likely work just based on using the main alone.

For setting a storm jib, ideally I think that here would be a solent stay. I too would be interested to hear reactions of people who have actually used an ATN Gale sail.

[Russell]

Como No was fitted with a 3 rd reef in the main and was cutter rigged, but with out the staysail boom. We chose to get rid of the staysail boom in favor of installing turning blocks and adding an additional winch on the cabin house to handle the staysail. Both staysail and Yankee jib were on roller furling.

I actually intend to remove my staysail boom this summer (mainly for better dinghy storage options). One thing I wondered about though, with the boom gone and traditional sheets, you should be able to hove to with the a deep reefed main and staysail rather then the yankee. Did you ever try doing that and did it balance out properly?

[Como No Cruising]

Russell: Yes, we were able to heave to with the 3rd reef in the main and the staysail. As noted, our staysail was on a furler and at the time we had it partially furled. We also experimented with the main sheet and found that Como No held her position best with the main slackened a little to counter the staysail.

We never missed the staysail boom. Just freeing up the foredeck for dinghy storage was a big plus. Hope it works for you.

As to the post about sailing in heavy weather with a Ketch rig, I was on a delivery of a 38 ketch, Fales Navigator, across the Gulf of Mexico, Texas to Florida. We had 35 to 40 knot winds steady and building seas while riding a Norther. We struck the main and double reefed the mizzen and put up a storm jib. The boat handled and balanced well. We continued sailing with the Monitor vane steering us. A wet and rough ride, but under control.