Hi Folks -
We are recently returned to the dreary north east from a great trip to the Abacos, Bahamas. I am happy to report that the boat did very well in some rough conditions on the crossing from North Carolina. We, on the other hand, did not always do so well -- but the boat more than compensated.
Among the problems we encountered was my inability to get the boat to properly heave to without raising our main which has only 2 reef points. We were in large / steep and confused seas and saw 30+knts for more than 36 hours with some significantly higher moments when the front passed. I was reluctant to raise the main under those conditions for a variety of reasons including that my mate who was unable to confidently bring and hold the boat head to wind in the face of steep seas; an electric autopilot which was similarly unable to cope with the conditions; and my hesitance to raise so much canvas in the face of those winds regardless.
With those limitations, I did try to heave to a couple of times. I tried to heave to with a backed scrap of yankee and the helm lashed over but that combination left us beam on and charging down the trenches between waves. I also tried to heave to with the staysail. The staysail (which we ultimatley lost when the front past and the clew tore out) I believe is too flat and centered and I was unable to find a helm position which would make the boat heave to under staysail alone. The upshot of my inability to slow the boat down when we really needed to was an exhausted crew (both of us), seasickness and unnecessarily exposing the boat.
We've done LOTS of monday morning quarterbacking and I'd like to think we'd be much more competent and do a number of things different if faced with the same situation. That said, I am interested in hearing from you all. How do you approach heaving to when you don't already have main up? Do those tactics apply in 30+knots? Do you have 3 reefs in your main? Do you carry / use a trysail?
Thanks for your insights and comments. Happy New Year to you all!
Matt
heaving to - third reefs and trysails
Moderator: Jim Walsh
I have 3 reefs in the main, precisely for the case you describe: being able to heave to in higher winds. Though generally sailing under storm jib works fine and if things get too bad for that, bare poles and a drogue is still preferable to hove to. Adding a 3rd reef to the main is cheap and easy, so really there is no reason not to, it gives you another option, but you will generally find when talking to people that by the time its bad enough for the 3rd reef most want to get the canvas down anyway. The situation you described I would generally opt to continue sailing under staysail or storm jib, but your issue with the autopilot is the problem, if you plan frequently to do more passagemaking in the future you really should consider a windvane.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
Thanks Russell -
Ultimately, after the front passed and the wind clocked, we ran off for a few hours while the seas subsided a bit. We didn't carry a drogue and running required hand steering. I am even more impressed by you single-handers after the experience . . .
I sailed into the clocking front under staysail alone and we had a very harrowing period (can't say if it was 2 minutes or 20). In retrospect, I felt as though the flat and centered staysail might have contributed to our being "sucked-in" to the center of the disturbance (up until that point it was a steadying force and a huge asset).
As for windvanes, I couldn't agree more. I mounted a monitor vane a few weeks before we left. It is a pretty (very?) pathetic excuse, but we didn't have enough experience with it to engage it under the conditions we were experiencing. When we head back to the boat (still in the bahamas) time sailing with the vane is a top priority.
I guess I have a choice between the 3rd reef or the trysail. I think a trysail will cost 600-700. A third reef, probably a bit less. It is interesting and useful to hear that you have a third reef. I do like the fact that the trysail is not attached to the boom but it would certaibly be cumbersome to store and rig. Choices . . ..
Best,
Matt
Ultimately, after the front passed and the wind clocked, we ran off for a few hours while the seas subsided a bit. We didn't carry a drogue and running required hand steering. I am even more impressed by you single-handers after the experience . . .
I sailed into the clocking front under staysail alone and we had a very harrowing period (can't say if it was 2 minutes or 20). In retrospect, I felt as though the flat and centered staysail might have contributed to our being "sucked-in" to the center of the disturbance (up until that point it was a steadying force and a huge asset).
As for windvanes, I couldn't agree more. I mounted a monitor vane a few weeks before we left. It is a pretty (very?) pathetic excuse, but we didn't have enough experience with it to engage it under the conditions we were experiencing. When we head back to the boat (still in the bahamas) time sailing with the vane is a top priority.
I guess I have a choice between the 3rd reef or the trysail. I think a trysail will cost 600-700. A third reef, probably a bit less. It is interesting and useful to hear that you have a third reef. I do like the fact that the trysail is not attached to the boom but it would certaibly be cumbersome to store and rig. Choices . . ..
Best,
Matt
A storm certainly is not the time to learn how to use your windvane, so I understand that. Since you do have one, make it a point to use it always, even for a 3 hour daysail, you want all the experience you can get. Knowing how to use a vane in light wind very directly correlates to using one in high wind. They are actually very easy to use, but it takes a bit of practice to "get it", once that kicks in, you wont know how you lived without it. No matter how well you understand the principal, actually using a windvane in practice is very different and you will learn a lot about sail trim in the process.
Windvane aside, still, a third reef is not much more then a some webbing straps sewn onto a ring and a ring pressed in. Generally they are not as useful as one might think, but its a small enough expense to add one that its a no brainer. I certainly beleive in having a storm jib, but the trysail I am not so sure about. A trysail setup properly involves its own track on the mast and on smaller boats gets more complicated then nessisary. I would seriously consider spending the same amount of money on a drogue rather then a trysail. If you have ever been at sea in conditions where either need to be deployed on boats as small as ours, a trysail becomes very unappealing.
Windvane aside, still, a third reef is not much more then a some webbing straps sewn onto a ring and a ring pressed in. Generally they are not as useful as one might think, but its a small enough expense to add one that its a no brainer. I certainly beleive in having a storm jib, but the trysail I am not so sure about. A trysail setup properly involves its own track on the mast and on smaller boats gets more complicated then nessisary. I would seriously consider spending the same amount of money on a drogue rather then a trysail. If you have ever been at sea in conditions where either need to be deployed on boats as small as ours, a trysail becomes very unappealing.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1527
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Trailing Warps
In that situation I would trail my poor man's version of warps: yoke, rope, and an old tire, if you have the room.
Dick
Dick
Glad you made it through alright. It sounds like you know what you and your boat can do which is very, very important knowledge.
In 40-45kts under the extended lee of the north shore of Lake Superior my nephew and I found ourselves wishing very hard for a 3rd reef. Very hard indeed after the dinghy came adrift, the third batten on the main departed and 38' of the genny leech tore out! It was a cold wind and full on just forward of the port beam.
While we were still able to maintain our course, under main and pitifully rolled up genny, the 25 year old main was flogging. I was spilling just to get by. Since we didn't need to heave to I cannot say what worked but I did go through the mental exercise of planning out how to carry it out if needed. Since we were only about five miles off the lee of the shore the waves were not huge. Their period was so short however that it was a pounding.
Our 33 is a sloop and then it had only a big roller genny to boot. In practicing heaving to (up to about 20kts or so) I would roll up the genny to a scrap that was fairly flat, put two reefs in the main and play with the wheel and mainsheet for balance. But right before putting the helm over I would need to run the jib sheet around the shrouds to a block on the side deck track so they would not chafe. I would do the same method in the big stuff, but I think that third reef would be key.
When my nephew and I went over the experience, in those conditions waves or not, we decided a third reef in the main and either a gale sail or storm sail on a separate stay would be best and we would have been good up to 45knots.
I think with our boats, the balance problem is due to having more sail behind the center of effort as it is, so presenting a smaller main is essential. I have usually needed to ease the main to balance while heaving too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3de68wZ-SrE
In 40-45kts under the extended lee of the north shore of Lake Superior my nephew and I found ourselves wishing very hard for a 3rd reef. Very hard indeed after the dinghy came adrift, the third batten on the main departed and 38' of the genny leech tore out! It was a cold wind and full on just forward of the port beam.
While we were still able to maintain our course, under main and pitifully rolled up genny, the 25 year old main was flogging. I was spilling just to get by. Since we didn't need to heave to I cannot say what worked but I did go through the mental exercise of planning out how to carry it out if needed. Since we were only about five miles off the lee of the shore the waves were not huge. Their period was so short however that it was a pounding.
Our 33 is a sloop and then it had only a big roller genny to boot. In practicing heaving to (up to about 20kts or so) I would roll up the genny to a scrap that was fairly flat, put two reefs in the main and play with the wheel and mainsheet for balance. But right before putting the helm over I would need to run the jib sheet around the shrouds to a block on the side deck track so they would not chafe. I would do the same method in the big stuff, but I think that third reef would be key.
When my nephew and I went over the experience, in those conditions waves or not, we decided a third reef in the main and either a gale sail or storm sail on a separate stay would be best and we would have been good up to 45knots.
I think with our boats, the balance problem is due to having more sail behind the center of effort as it is, so presenting a smaller main is essential. I have usually needed to ease the main to balance while heaving too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3de68wZ-SrE
Paul
CDSOA Member
CDSOA Member
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seadog6532
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sep 19th, '07, 14:34
- Location: last boat 31' C&C Corvette, 0wner of CD30k #112 Arianna.
Last season in the Gulf of Mexico we hove to on our CD30 Ketch with no sail up at all. The boat lay 40-50 degrees off the wind and rode like a duck. The boat was in cruising trim at the time with 4 jerry cans on each side deck, RIB dingy upside down behind the mast, dodger, and weather cloths around the cockpit. Also the jib was furled and the main and mizzen were lashed on their booms so we did have a lot of windage. With so much windage we could not get the boat to heave to with sail up, We have done it before without all the deck clutter in less wind, but the boat did great with nothing up in this case. Before trying to heave to we ran off under bare poles but were hitting hull speed so tried to heave to without sail and it worked great. In this case we just kept trying things till we found what worked best.
Mark and Anna of Arianna CD30K #112
I have to agree with Russell . . . Add the third reef, forget the tri-sail and learn to use your wind vane. Be sure to practice reefing, setting storm sails and other skills with your crew before leaving on any extended trip. Every boat is different and doing these things in rough conditions can be difficult and dangerous if everyone does not know their jobs and the boat well so plan and practice early. To set up a storm tri sail it will require more than just a sail, you may need to add a track for it on the mast and have an outhaul for its foot. You will always have the third reef available for quick use, but that may not also be true with the storm tri-sail.
In a recent trip returning from Bermuda I experienced similar conditions for nearly 48 hours, with winds in the mid-thirties and big seas we had a storm sail up (ATN Gail Sail) and a triple reef in the main. My monitor wind vane handled the conditions effortlessly, the boat did great.
I use my wind vane nearly 90% of the time I am under sail and normally only use the auto pilot while under power. I have found that even crew that have never used a wind vane in the past quickly got use to using it and allowed me as the captain to be more relaxed and I had much more confidence in my boat and crew.
Fair Winds
In a recent trip returning from Bermuda I experienced similar conditions for nearly 48 hours, with winds in the mid-thirties and big seas we had a storm sail up (ATN Gail Sail) and a triple reef in the main. My monitor wind vane handled the conditions effortlessly, the boat did great.
I use my wind vane nearly 90% of the time I am under sail and normally only use the auto pilot while under power. I have found that even crew that have never used a wind vane in the past quickly got use to using it and allowed me as the captain to be more relaxed and I had much more confidence in my boat and crew.
Fair Winds
I'll be the first to admit I'm a big fan of the Pardeys. That said, their advice is to heave to rather than run; that 3 reefs in the main can move the CE too far forward and/or leave too much sail up. Switch to a trysail on its own track in conjunction with a storm jib.
There's more info in "Storm Tactics" and "Cost Conscious Cruiser". Or their website: www.landlpardey.com
There's more info in "Storm Tactics" and "Cost Conscious Cruiser". Or their website: www.landlpardey.com
I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means no.
I like the Pardey's as well. They (and pretty much everyone who writes from the perspective of when most hulls looked like ours) do advocate for heaving to and most for trysails. The Pardeys are uniquely *opposed* to running off something which I find interesting but have reservations about since I imagine (as most other writers suggest) that different tactics have their places at different times.
Nothing speaks more clearly to that than the difference in the various times we saw 30+ winds on our trip. When they we fresh from the south over large preexisting easterly swells -- the seas were very confused /steeep / some broke and generally chaotic. 36 hours later the winds remained high and the seas were big but had subsided (the really high ones and breaking ones were gone and they were more orderly). Essentially the same winds but much more managable. 30kn in and out of the lee of islands on the sea of abaco was uncofortable but sailable. Also, nighttime makes everything worse . . ..
Heaving to is, in my opinion, a fundemental skill for all boats (from daysailors on up). Sometimes its about searoom, sometimes it is about showing the bow to breaking seas, sometimes its stopping the boat but shorterterm than would be possible with a drogue. I believe you have to be able to do it -- for as long as possible. That upper limit (it seems to me) should be much higher than force 7-8 winds and seas.
What I remain curious about is whether anyone on a Cape Dory was doing it with a trysail (or had tried it). And, if going from mainsail down to heaving to in a blow how the heck you do it. The prospect of turning directly to the wind and waves and raising the main (regardless of the double reef) in those winds was prohibative. Frankly I wonder if it wouldn't be safer with a trysail which is not attached to the boom. I have read the Pardey's describe hoisting and lowering a sail on a reach by using the air flowing off a centered jib to take the pressure off the luff of the main / trysail when raising it . . ..
Somebody recently bought a trysail off the Buy/Sell section here so *somebody* is using one
All the stories / experiences are great so keep em coming (but I want to hear more about trysails and high wind reefing experience too).
Nothing speaks more clearly to that than the difference in the various times we saw 30+ winds on our trip. When they we fresh from the south over large preexisting easterly swells -- the seas were very confused /steeep / some broke and generally chaotic. 36 hours later the winds remained high and the seas were big but had subsided (the really high ones and breaking ones were gone and they were more orderly). Essentially the same winds but much more managable. 30kn in and out of the lee of islands on the sea of abaco was uncofortable but sailable. Also, nighttime makes everything worse . . ..
Heaving to is, in my opinion, a fundemental skill for all boats (from daysailors on up). Sometimes its about searoom, sometimes it is about showing the bow to breaking seas, sometimes its stopping the boat but shorterterm than would be possible with a drogue. I believe you have to be able to do it -- for as long as possible. That upper limit (it seems to me) should be much higher than force 7-8 winds and seas.
What I remain curious about is whether anyone on a Cape Dory was doing it with a trysail (or had tried it). And, if going from mainsail down to heaving to in a blow how the heck you do it. The prospect of turning directly to the wind and waves and raising the main (regardless of the double reef) in those winds was prohibative. Frankly I wonder if it wouldn't be safer with a trysail which is not attached to the boom. I have read the Pardey's describe hoisting and lowering a sail on a reach by using the air flowing off a centered jib to take the pressure off the luff of the main / trysail when raising it . . ..
Somebody recently bought a trysail off the Buy/Sell section here so *somebody* is using one
All the stories / experiences are great so keep em coming (but I want to hear more about trysails and high wind reefing experience too).These videos may answer some of your questions. Also, the Pardeys have stated that they chose a battenless main so that they do not have to go completely head to wind to raise it.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xebvpw ... rel-page-4
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xebvq5 ... el-page-11
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xebvpw ... rel-page-4
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xebvq5 ... el-page-11
I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means no.
I have no experience in high winds on cutter rigged Cape Dory's so all of this is based on many other designs in high winds. My Cape Dory is a ketch and will heave to in everything except very light air under mizzen alone. It is actually how I raise and lower sails a significant portion of the time.
While heaving-to, I find that many people do not effectively use the helm. They assume that turning it hard one way as if they were sailing ahead is best. When properly hove-to, the water is not moving forward over the rudder foil and many boats will actually steer as if in reverse. I would suggest playing around with your own boat in more controlled conditions and figuring this out.
Sail sheeting and shape is also something that you can mess with. By changing how flat the sail is, you can change the lift to drag ratio of the sail and change its effect on how the boat moves. Also, by changing where it is sheeted to, you can change the angle of the force. I usually find that a centered staysail does not work very well and that it really needs to be sheeted to weather.
Have you tried fore-reaching? You could do this with a deeply reefed main only and keeping the helm turned to leeward by some amount. The boat will be moving ahead and this is not as good a technique in severe weather but it will work in the vast majority of situations.
I have mixed feelings on how trisails perform. In my opinion, there is no substitute during extreme weather but people tend not to use them due to inexperience and poor rigging. I have only flown a few but most have had terrible shape when originally raised and we have needed to adjust how the sail is set to get anything useful out of it. The reason that this was a problem is that the sail had not been sufficiently practiced and experimented with. For the way the vast majority of us use our boats, they really are not necessary. However, if you were going to try a 3 capes trip or something like that, a lot of time and energy should go into it.
Besides being able to heave-to, I believe that being able to run before it is critically important. Deciding between tactics is a matter of wind and wave conditions as well as where you are and where you expect the storm to track. I have talked to many people who have never actually done this in extreme conditions and they explain how they will just trail their short docklines which won't be effective in conditions where you really need to do this. Unfortunately, drogues have a bad habit of popping out of waves unexpectedly and for this reason, I believe that the jordan series drogue is the best bet.
I suspect that with some experimentation, you will be able to get the boat to heave-to with the equipment that you already have. Adding another reef to the main certainly would not hurt.
While heaving-to, I find that many people do not effectively use the helm. They assume that turning it hard one way as if they were sailing ahead is best. When properly hove-to, the water is not moving forward over the rudder foil and many boats will actually steer as if in reverse. I would suggest playing around with your own boat in more controlled conditions and figuring this out.
Sail sheeting and shape is also something that you can mess with. By changing how flat the sail is, you can change the lift to drag ratio of the sail and change its effect on how the boat moves. Also, by changing where it is sheeted to, you can change the angle of the force. I usually find that a centered staysail does not work very well and that it really needs to be sheeted to weather.
Have you tried fore-reaching? You could do this with a deeply reefed main only and keeping the helm turned to leeward by some amount. The boat will be moving ahead and this is not as good a technique in severe weather but it will work in the vast majority of situations.
I have mixed feelings on how trisails perform. In my opinion, there is no substitute during extreme weather but people tend not to use them due to inexperience and poor rigging. I have only flown a few but most have had terrible shape when originally raised and we have needed to adjust how the sail is set to get anything useful out of it. The reason that this was a problem is that the sail had not been sufficiently practiced and experimented with. For the way the vast majority of us use our boats, they really are not necessary. However, if you were going to try a 3 capes trip or something like that, a lot of time and energy should go into it.
Besides being able to heave-to, I believe that being able to run before it is critically important. Deciding between tactics is a matter of wind and wave conditions as well as where you are and where you expect the storm to track. I have talked to many people who have never actually done this in extreme conditions and they explain how they will just trail their short docklines which won't be effective in conditions where you really need to do this. Unfortunately, drogues have a bad habit of popping out of waves unexpectedly and for this reason, I believe that the jordan series drogue is the best bet.
I suspect that with some experimentation, you will be able to get the boat to heave-to with the equipment that you already have. Adding another reef to the main certainly would not hurt.
In case this link does not work, my Google search term was: Pardey pitchpole
http://books.google.com/books?id=hsZMIb ... &q&f=false
And this is excerpted from a similar discussion on www.sailfar.net
"The punchline (for anyone who has not read the book "Storm Tactics") is that running before storm force winds and breaking seas (with or without a drag device) depends on luck at best - even with a drag device to slow the boat, breaking seas can knock her down, broach or pitchpole her. According to comparison of data of boats lost or damaged vs those that were NOT damaged in many, many storm encounters, those running have a MUCH higher risk of damage than those hove-to. Note that this is a comment on the attitude of the boat to wind/sea, not the method to get/hold her there. Sometimes, a drag device is needed to help hold her hove-to.
It's hard to argue with real-world data. The Pardey's conclusion from the available data: stream a drag off bow or stern, high risk of boat/crew damage; stream a drag off a bridle to hold the boat ~50 degrees off the wind, MUCH MUCH safer. The drag you use, if one is necessary at all, to hold the boat in this attitude will remain somewhat personal preference.
This is partly consistent with Eric Hiscock's earlier comments in Voyaging Under Sail. To paraphrase Hiscock, when speaking of streaming a sea-anchor off the bow: it's failed so many times [he] wonders why it is still used. This was solidified in my mind when I read a story in Blue Water Cruising a few years ago of a couple who set a sea-anchor off the bow in 50+ kts and got absolutely beat up, with a lot of damage to the boat as well. During the night, their rode parted and the boat adjusted herself to a hove-to attitude and the crew's comments were that she suddenly quieted down, the ride got much more comfortable. I always wondered why, after that experience, they then took measures to point the bow BACK into the wind and continued to suffer damage."
http://books.google.com/books?id=hsZMIb ... &q&f=false
And this is excerpted from a similar discussion on www.sailfar.net
"The punchline (for anyone who has not read the book "Storm Tactics") is that running before storm force winds and breaking seas (with or without a drag device) depends on luck at best - even with a drag device to slow the boat, breaking seas can knock her down, broach or pitchpole her. According to comparison of data of boats lost or damaged vs those that were NOT damaged in many, many storm encounters, those running have a MUCH higher risk of damage than those hove-to. Note that this is a comment on the attitude of the boat to wind/sea, not the method to get/hold her there. Sometimes, a drag device is needed to help hold her hove-to.
It's hard to argue with real-world data. The Pardey's conclusion from the available data: stream a drag off bow or stern, high risk of boat/crew damage; stream a drag off a bridle to hold the boat ~50 degrees off the wind, MUCH MUCH safer. The drag you use, if one is necessary at all, to hold the boat in this attitude will remain somewhat personal preference.
This is partly consistent with Eric Hiscock's earlier comments in Voyaging Under Sail. To paraphrase Hiscock, when speaking of streaming a sea-anchor off the bow: it's failed so many times [he] wonders why it is still used. This was solidified in my mind when I read a story in Blue Water Cruising a few years ago of a couple who set a sea-anchor off the bow in 50+ kts and got absolutely beat up, with a lot of damage to the boat as well. During the night, their rode parted and the boat adjusted herself to a hove-to attitude and the crew's comments were that she suddenly quieted down, the ride got much more comfortable. I always wondered why, after that experience, they then took measures to point the bow BACK into the wind and continued to suffer damage."
I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means no.
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Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
Question
Just a question re terminology.
Seadog mentioned heaving-to with no sails up. Isn't this known as "lying ahull?" My impression has always been that heaving-to always involves some sail up. Am I wrong?
Is it the case that lying ahull means the rudder is centered, but heaving to means that the rubber is set to point the boat to windward? With or without sail up?
Btw: I, like Russell, decided that a third reef is cheap insurance. But I have yet to use it in anger.
Dean
Seadog mentioned heaving-to with no sails up. Isn't this known as "lying ahull?" My impression has always been that heaving-to always involves some sail up. Am I wrong?
Is it the case that lying ahull means the rudder is centered, but heaving to means that the rubber is set to point the boat to windward? With or without sail up?
Btw: I, like Russell, decided that a third reef is cheap insurance. But I have yet to use it in anger.
Dean
Dean Abramson
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
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seadog6532
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sep 19th, '07, 14:34
- Location: last boat 31' C&C Corvette, 0wner of CD30k #112 Arianna.
I'm not sure if it is proper to say we hove to or lay ahull. In my mind it's more about how you lay to the wind. In our case the windage of furled sail and cruising deck clutter added a large amount of extra windage, much like having out some sail. Most of the windage was from the main mast aft. Dingy, dodger, and weather cloths. At the time I was thinking of putting up the reefed mizzen, but the boat did so well without it I just left well enough alone and it worked out fine. I have given some thought to a try sail of 3rd reef in the main but have never heard of anyone using a try sail on a ketch. I would love to hear from anyone who has. Klem, When you heave to with just the mizzen, do you just sheet it in hard or do you use something to barber haul it to one side. I have heard of this but never tried it. It is hard to find info on heavy weather sailing on a small ketch. You just don't see a lot of them out cruising anymore. So far we are very happy with our ketch in both fair and foul weather.
Mark and Anna of Arianna CD30K #112