Flying the Ensign on the Back Stay

[Bob Ohler]

Chris: a properly screwed-in staff base will certainly hold the proper sized ensign on a CD30. I use a small diameter of line tied to the center bar of the pushpit as a "safety line" to prevent loss.

Sea Hunt: May I offer: Doesn't Old Glory deserves a better set-up than a PVC pipe for a socket?

Steve: On a 25D, I rigged a block at the top of the mast and I tried to have the ensign slide on the back stay using shackles. The small shackles always wanted to hang-up on the back stay. It may have worked if I had omitted the shackles.

FW
rbo

[Sea Hunt Video]

Sea Hunt: May I offer: Doesn't Old Glory deserves a better set-up than a PVC pipe for a socket?

Bob:

I really appreciate that observation. It is very valid. I have seen several other "plastic" sailboats with this and thought of it for my new-to-me Cape Dory 25D.

Your poignant observation "Old Glory deserves a better set-up" is spot on.

I may try to install a bronze flag holder well secured into the taffrail or, as several others have suggested, fly Old Glory from the backstay.

Thanks Bob for stopping me from making a pretty stupid mistake.

[mattlydon]

i set this up in time forq july 4th. I wired the block to the backstay as high as i could reach stNding on the boom at the mast (with the backstay disconnected from the stern) with locking wire. I then ran some 3/16 inch line throught it and reconnected the backstay to it's fitting. a Davis shroud cleat just above the turnbuckle completes the rig.

to fly an ensign, I tie a loose bowline (2" loop) through the flag's grommets and around the backstay, so wind pressure in on the backstay, not on the halyard.

works great, and no clips or hardware to bang around in the wind

matt

[Jim Cornwell]

This year I put Yankee's ensign on the backstay with an endless halyard that runs to a small block almost at the masthead crane. A mark on the halyard tells me when the flag is at the 2/3 point.

One benefit is that there's no wobbly flag staff on the taffrail any more. Another is that the flag isn't tickling the helmsman's neck in a following breeze.

A disadvantage is that in calm conditions the ensign looks less than proud hanging from the inclined backstay - it sort of droops - though it looks just fine in a breeze. Another disadvantage is that twice I've neglected to strike the ensign when leaving the boat, because it's not in anyone's field of view while hurriedly doing all those button-up-the-boat chores at day's end.

On balance, I'm glad I made the change mostly because it reduces the clutter of stuff vying for space at the stern rail. Jim.

[Jim Cornwell]

This year I put Yankee's ensign on the backstay with an endless halyard that runs to a small block almost at the masthead crane. A mark on the halyard tells me when the flag is at the 2/3 point.

One benefit is that there's no wobbly flag staff on the taffrail any more. Another is that the flag isn't tickling the helmsman's neck in a following breeze.

A disadvantage is that in calm conditions the ensign looks less than proud hanging from the inclined backstay - it sort of droops - though it looks just fine in a breeze. Another disadvantage is that twice I've neglected to strike the ensign when leaving the boat, because it's not in anyone's field of view while hurriedly doing all those button-up-the-boat chores at day's end.

On balance, I'm glad I made the change mostly because it reduces the clutter of stuff vying for space at the stern rail. Jim.

[House]

Robert,

I mean no offense, but Bob is correct - your 25D deserves better than PVC for its flag! You've earned your ship now, so spring for the $34 and get a proper bronze flag socket from Spartan. According to Chapman's Boating Etiquette (2005), the flag belongs in the place of honor on a boat, which traditionally is the stern, as is the spot where the peak of the gaff would be on a gaff-rigged boat. Since most of us probably don't have a gaff rig, 2/3 of the way up the leech of the aftermost sail, in your case, the main (not the backstay) will suffice. Again according to Chapman, the flag should be flown from the leech when under sail; when at anchor or at the dock, or any other time when the sail is doused, the flag should be flown from the stern. If hardware or rigging prevent you from mounting the socket on the centerline, move it to starboard just a bit. The flag goes up at 8:00 a.m. and comes down at sunset. There are lots more "rules," but these are the basics; have fun and enjoy your new boat!

Richard

[tjr818]

Thanks Richard,
2/3rds up the leech is a lot easier to achieve than 2/3rds up the backstay, but won't the flag hit the backstay with every tack or jibe?
I'd like to fly a pretty big flag on Sláinte, my CD27.

[Neil Gordon]

I entered Boston harbor this afternoon at the same time a CG cutter was leaving. We passed port to port and with this thread in mind, I dipped my stern mounted ensign to them. (No response from the cutter.)

[tjr818]

2/3rds up the leech is a lot easier to achieve than 2/3rds up the backstay, but won't the flag hit the backstay with every tack or jibe?
I'd like to fly a pretty big flag on Sláinte, my CD27.

Does anyone know where I can get a flag with the proper 1:1.9 ratio? Most commercial flags are 1:1.5 and that just doesn't fly as well as the 1:1.9

[Steve Laume]

>>The down side is that it could not be flown when the main was not up.<<

Which is the proper protocol, I believe. If the main is not up, the ensign should be flown from the stern (which leaves us back where we started).

On page 47, of the Oct/Nov Points East magazine there is a very nice picture of a Tartan 30, sailing out to greet the Coast Guard barque, Eagle. The Eagle has no sails set but is proudly flying the American flag from the aftermost yard about 2/3 of the way up the mast.

Does the CG not know the proper rules of etiquette or is this okay?

I suppose I will continue to fly from the back stay and not feel like I am dishonoring the flag, Steve.

[Jim Davis]

Perfectly proper and traditional for a vessel with a standing gaff. This applies to under sail, no sails and not underway.

[Neil Gordon]

That's what flying the ensign 2/3 up the leech is supposed to do. You don't get the same effect when flying the ensign from the backstay unless you're close hauled.

[tjr818]

So...do I just sew a block onto the leech 2/3rds of the way up for a flag halyard, or what???

[Neil Gordon]

So...do I just sew a block onto the leech 2/3rds of the way up for a flag halyard, or what???

Yes. Once you've done that and tested out your new system, start a thread on how to control all that line when the main comes down.

You could just sew in two loops or rings of whatever that you could simply clip the ensign to. Of course in that case you'd need to reef the main in order to dip the ensign in respect of passing war ships. (And for some of us, clearly the main would go up before we remembered to attach the ensign.

[Jim Davis]

Tim

The simple way to solve the problem is to sew a flag to the sail at the two thirds position. It then becomes part of your sail, don't sweat dipping the colors for warships - they aren't going to see you do it. You then need a second flag on a Staff that you fly from the stern when your sail is not up.

Or: Rig the flag on the Backstay or just use a Flag Staff and say to .... with it.