Hi all,
Since boat topics seem to be a little slow today, I wonder if I could sneak in a question about wood refinishing that isn't related to boats.
I have a front entry door that is getting weathered and, truthfully, not pleasant to look at. It is made of white oak, I think. Maybe it is red oak, but it is hard to tell which because of the urethane? type finish. Who knows, it might have been varnish. Anyhow, it is weathering and darkening.
It is a nine panel door, three on top, middle and bottom. The frame is solid wood and the panels have oak veneer surface. I really goofed when I tried to sand the outer surface of the panels. When one of them turned color, it was then when I realized that the finish was an oak veneer.
I guess that my question is how do I refresh the wood to near original color by removing the dark, weathered finish. Would you recommend using a varnish type remover to get at the bare wood for any trearment recommended? Any product that you would recommend?
Best regards,
O J
Best regards
Question For Woodworkers.
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Question For Woodworkers.
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
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Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
It sounds like a beautiful oak door. That said and having run into this before, I would recommend, paint.
I know that is not what you asked or even wanted to hear but it would save you a bunch of trouble, trying to keep a bright finish on the door. It sounds like you have been taking better care of your boats than you have been of the door. This is easily understandable as they are far more worthy and certainly more fun. Just think of the time you would have to mess around with boats if you just striped, sanded and painted the outside of the door instead of trying to get the stained veneer back into condition for a bright finish.
Paint every couple of years or varnish every couple of seasons. And that is only if you can mess around with it enough to get it to where you are happy with a clear finish.
Just sayin, life is short and time is expensive, Steve.
I know that is not what you asked or even wanted to hear but it would save you a bunch of trouble, trying to keep a bright finish on the door. It sounds like you have been taking better care of your boats than you have been of the door. This is easily understandable as they are far more worthy and certainly more fun. Just think of the time you would have to mess around with boats if you just striped, sanded and painted the outside of the door instead of trying to get the stained veneer back into condition for a bright finish.
Paint every couple of years or varnish every couple of seasons. And that is only if you can mess around with it enough to get it to where you are happy with a clear finish.
Just sayin, life is short and time is expensive, Steve.
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tjr818
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: Oct 13th, '07, 13:42
- Location: Previously owned 1980 CD 27 Slainte, Hull #185. NO.1257949
Really?
I find it hard to believe that you sanded much of the veneer off. Were you using a belt sander? if you are talking about a small area I would either try to disguise it with careful stain matching or perhaps cutting in a Dutchman patch. Only then if all that fails would I resort to paint. Remember, you are looking at this small area as a major blemish, others are looking at the whole house first and then at the door. Few will even notice a small patch in a door. Some will even appreciate the craftsmanship of a well done patch.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
No Paint
The truth is I hired a guy who needed work and he used a vibrating sander on the panel. He was very apologetic about the boo-boo. He meant well. He thought he was doing me a favor speeding the job along. Luckily he stopped when he did before more damage was done. I looked at tht door a thousand times and I never once considered that the panel was a veneer.
My thought is, subject to change, that I will level the panel area to the base level and then apply a new section of oak veneer, or if possible a milled section of solid oak.
No matter what color tone the new panel comes out, I still want to renew the rest of the door and refinish it. I have fooled around with stains enough and hopefully I can stain the door to match the new panel.
I do hope to find a wood cleaner/stripper to get the door down to clean wood. This has to be done before cold weather sets in.
The reason that I don't want to paint the door is because it is the center portion of a one piece unit of two window panels on either side, all made of matching oak.
Maybe I'll take some of your advice and let the hired hand do the entire job while I go sailing.
NOT LOL 
I think NOT.
O J
If I think of it, maybe tomorrow I'll take a picture or three and show you what the mess looks like.
My thought is, subject to change, that I will level the panel area to the base level and then apply a new section of oak veneer, or if possible a milled section of solid oak.
No matter what color tone the new panel comes out, I still want to renew the rest of the door and refinish it. I have fooled around with stains enough and hopefully I can stain the door to match the new panel.
I do hope to find a wood cleaner/stripper to get the door down to clean wood. This has to be done before cold weather sets in.
The reason that I don't want to paint the door is because it is the center portion of a one piece unit of two window panels on either side, all made of matching oak.
Maybe I'll take some of your advice and let the hired hand do the entire job while I go sailing.
NOT LOL I think NOT.O J
If I think of it, maybe tomorrow I'll take a picture or three and show you what the mess looks like.
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
John,
Last season, i sanded off all the Cetol finish from the white oak coaming boards on our sailboat. The wood had changed color under the finish, presumably from UV such that getting it back to its original color would have required significant additional sanding.
my point is, if your door was urethaned and if i'm right, a chemical stripper may not be enough to get back to the bare wood color.
incidentally, i reinstalled the coaming boards with no finish and they turned to a uniform silver/grey color undistinguishable from weathered teak. the best part is no annual maintenance other than a good cleaning.
Last season, i sanded off all the Cetol finish from the white oak coaming boards on our sailboat. The wood had changed color under the finish, presumably from UV such that getting it back to its original color would have required significant additional sanding.
my point is, if your door was urethaned and if i'm right, a chemical stripper may not be enough to get back to the bare wood color.
incidentally, i reinstalled the coaming boards with no finish and they turned to a uniform silver/grey color undistinguishable from weathered teak. the best part is no annual maintenance other than a good cleaning.
Mark Abramski
refinishing a door
I plan to refinish our 1926 oak entry door that looks like it has a couple coats of some probably lead-based clear finish. It has been recommended to use MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) to remove the old finish. My old varnish-like finish may require an hour of soaking whereas harder finishes (like urethane) could need a couple hours. MEK should be covered after it is applied then removed when the old finish is soft.
I once sanded an interior storage cover on a TY weekender and soon learned it was veneer. Took forever to match the stain. Wished I had gone the new veneer route. Today veneers of all thicknesses and sizes are available in rubra and alba. I'd be tempted to go with the super thin veneer that matches your species for the repair panel. You could match the aged color of your existing veneer panels with stain on small scrap pieces of veneer until you get the right color.
Hope this helps.
I once sanded an interior storage cover on a TY weekender and soon learned it was veneer. Took forever to match the stain. Wished I had gone the new veneer route. Today veneers of all thicknesses and sizes are available in rubra and alba. I'd be tempted to go with the super thin veneer that matches your species for the repair panel. You could match the aged color of your existing veneer panels with stain on small scrap pieces of veneer until you get the right color.
Hope this helps.
Jim Buck
Member #1004
Member #1004
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Veneer
Hi Jim,
Yes, that helps a lot. Do you have any info on your sources for various veneers and stains?
I took some pictures today of the stained wood and the ruined veneer. I plan to send them in later tonight so people can better visualize my problem.
Again, thanks.
O J
Yes, that helps a lot. Do you have any info on your sources for various veneers and stains?
I took some pictures today of the stained wood and the ruined veneer. I plan to send them in later tonight so people can better visualize my problem.
Again, thanks.
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
veneer source
Hi John,
One source is Woodcraft but they can be expensive and you may have to buy more than you need:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200867 ... M-PSA.aspx
They also have a white oak veneer in various sizes. I've made purchases through Woodcraft and Rockler with satisfactory results.
Once you determine the species needed and the size of the panel, you should be able to find the most suitable veneer with a Google search (theveneerstore.com, woodshop.com, oakwoodveneer.com). You'll probably be confronted with not only choosing species, width, and thickness, but also what type of grain, i.e., flat, rift, rift with flake,... I wouldn't get too caught up with the grain pattern as most likely a door manufacturer would use a flat grain. However if the door was made by a craftsman or small company you could have one of the "specialty" patterns. Some come with an adhesive backing, some rely on you applying an adhesive like a spray on contact cement. Personally, I would get a sheet large enough to have several scraps to play with stains. Once I had the right color match, I would flatten then stain a piece slightly larger in all dimensions than your panel and set aside. Then I would make an exact pattern of the panel with construction paper or some heavier paper. Place the pattern on the panel with the grain probably aligned vertically and make registration marks at the corners (L's). You could then remove the pattern and with a straight edge aligned with the registration marks, make a light, very careful pass with a razor knife followed by a heavier razor knife pass along the same line. Repeat three more times and you should have a nice veneer panel ready for placement. There's a web site that details working with veneer more than provided in this reply: http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/ ... tarted.htm
As for stains, and assuming you'll have to darken your veneer rather than lighten, I've been happy with the minwax brand and have several partial cans from past mixes that are probably dried up and reside next to sample boards that resemble Rorschach tests. It's been a few years since I've stained a project.
Please know John, that I'm only a serious hobbyist in woodworking. I've done this in the past but fear I may be leaving something out as my CRS acts up now and again. (CRS-> can't remember stuff.) The joewoodworker web site is a good one and may fill in more detail.
Anyways, thank you for all your wisdom on Ty's and I hope this helps a little.
One source is Woodcraft but they can be expensive and you may have to buy more than you need:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200867 ... M-PSA.aspx
They also have a white oak veneer in various sizes. I've made purchases through Woodcraft and Rockler with satisfactory results.
Once you determine the species needed and the size of the panel, you should be able to find the most suitable veneer with a Google search (theveneerstore.com, woodshop.com, oakwoodveneer.com). You'll probably be confronted with not only choosing species, width, and thickness, but also what type of grain, i.e., flat, rift, rift with flake,... I wouldn't get too caught up with the grain pattern as most likely a door manufacturer would use a flat grain. However if the door was made by a craftsman or small company you could have one of the "specialty" patterns. Some come with an adhesive backing, some rely on you applying an adhesive like a spray on contact cement. Personally, I would get a sheet large enough to have several scraps to play with stains. Once I had the right color match, I would flatten then stain a piece slightly larger in all dimensions than your panel and set aside. Then I would make an exact pattern of the panel with construction paper or some heavier paper. Place the pattern on the panel with the grain probably aligned vertically and make registration marks at the corners (L's). You could then remove the pattern and with a straight edge aligned with the registration marks, make a light, very careful pass with a razor knife followed by a heavier razor knife pass along the same line. Repeat three more times and you should have a nice veneer panel ready for placement. There's a web site that details working with veneer more than provided in this reply: http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/ ... tarted.htm
As for stains, and assuming you'll have to darken your veneer rather than lighten, I've been happy with the minwax brand and have several partial cans from past mixes that are probably dried up and reside next to sample boards that resemble Rorschach tests. It's been a few years since I've stained a project.
Please know John, that I'm only a serious hobbyist in woodworking. I've done this in the past but fear I may be leaving something out as my CRS acts up now and again. (CRS-> can't remember stuff.) The joewoodworker web site is a good one and may fill in more detail.
Anyways, thank you for all your wisdom on Ty's and I hope this helps a little.
Jim Buck
Member #1004
Member #1004