Installing main halyard winch on coach roof

[Andy Denmark]

Robert,

There's a reason there is nothing between the masthead truck and the halyard winches; there's nothing to jam if there is nothing there. Halyard jams can lock the sail in a halfway up, or down, configuration. The more fairleads, turning blocks, sheet stoppers, etc. that are put between the halyard shackle and the winch, then there are more things to jam it. Hockles, tangles, inadvertant self-tied knots, all occur at these points.

This is not conjecture. I've been aboard boats (several) with cockpit-led halyards and watched the "single hander" run back and forth between the mast and the cockpit to untangle a fouled halyard at the sheet stopper or winch or fairlead or turning block, or what-have-you, usually with a lot of foul language thrown about. This is obviously unsafe and self-defeating especially if you're trying to douse sail in a hurry.

As a proponent of the KISS school of sailing, I much prefer doing all the hoisting. dousing, reefing at the mast, and, when conditions warrant, hooking up my harness. Another reason I won't lead halyards aft on my boat is the mess of coiled lines that must coexist in the cockpit with you and one another, not to mention those coiled lines ruining the best lean-back places on the boat.

On Rhiannon I use the autopilot when I'm at the mast or bow to hold a course where the main barely draws so she makes a little way and is more stable than with everything slacked off. This also makes absolutely sure she won't tack or jibe while I'm at the mast.

As others have suggested, don't be in a hurry to do stuff to your new boat. Sail her for a season and then decide what needs changing. I'd say this is especially relevant to hypothetical scenarios with which you have little direct experience.

That said, the three things I'd most suggest to anyone who plans to single hand a lot are an autopilot, Strong Track and a permanently mounted boarding ladder.

FWIW,

Andy

[Sea Hunt Video]

This board is the greatest resource for advise, recommendations, how-tos, etc.

For now, I will not attempt to install a main halyard winch on the cabin coach roof. As suggested by just about everyone I will sail her for a while before deciding if this is something I really want (need) to do.

Thanks

I will be posting other questions about things I think I want to do (or really need to do) on my new-to-me Cape Dory 25D.

[Oswego John]

Robert,

Good on yer, mite.

Pictures, pictures, we crave pictures.

O J
(late Oct will do.)

[Duncan]

... things I think I want to do (or really need to do) on my new-to-me Cape Dory 25D.

One thing you really need to do is post photos of your new boat, for us to admire

[Sea Hunt Video]

One thing you really need to do is post photos of your new boat, for us to admire

Hello Duncan:

I would very much like to do so. Especially once she is in Miami. Unfortunately, I have so far been unsuccessful at learning how to post photos on this website. To say that I am a computer idiot would be too kind and not sufficiently descriptive. I have friends who are computer geeks who have given up trying to teach me any more than what limited skills I already know. They believe I belong in the 19th century. They are probably right.

There was someone on this board I turned to for advise, hoping that because he had about as much computer skills as I did that he could explain the procedure to me in language that I could understand. It turns out this "friend" learned from a very pretty, blonde college co-ed and my "friend" is unwilling to share, offering instead some guy named "Bruno" who has no opposing thumbs and his knuckles scrape the ground when he walks.

On a unrelated note, after viewing the following website, please let me know if anyone wants to trade places with me.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at4.sh ... e#contents

I think I made the right decision in leaving my Cape Dory 25D in the NY/NJ area until mid-October.

[fenixrises]

Hi all,

After your boat arrives you might consider locating another experienced CD25d sailor in your area. Their expertise on readying the boat for launch and help on the first couple of day sails may prove invaluable.

On of my rules of thumb, when the need to go forward arrives, is to spend a moment or two at ease in the cockpit thinking through the entire process that you want to accomplish. Things like, do I need a tool or knife or bit of line, etc. After you have mentally run through the procedure then go forward and do what needs to be done.

Remember that at 4 or 5 knots things really do not happen that fast.

I find it is also a good idea to learn to HOLD ON to something whenever moving about the boat. A three point stance or even on hands and knees is sometimes advisable.

BTW my halyards are at the mast. On SuShine they were originally led to the cockpit. I like it all in one easy to reach place. "Ass Planks" as I call them are very handy but may be a bit much on a 25.

Take care and smooth sailing down there in FLA,
Fred

[rtbates]

I was hot to move lines back to the cockpit BEFORE I sailed our 25D. Then I discovered a much easier and safer way. HEAVE TO to both raise and lower the main. That makes the head sail First OUT and Last IN. I usually heave to with 80-90 of the head sail.

[Larry McAnally]

Having sailed CDs with halyards in the cockpit and on the mast I prefer the mast arrangment for all the reasons that Steve listed. I find that I often find myself at the mast with the cockpit led halyards and the added lines on the deck are as likely to contribute to putting you in the water as they are to keep you out. The less friction that Steve mentioned is important also. The direct pull from the mast winch works well for me.
As for the tiller pilot, You will get a great benefit from that improvement and the installation is easy. Install that and go sail.
Larry

[Sea Hunt Video]

I was hot to move lines back to the cockpit BEFORE I sailed our 25D. Then I discovered a much easier and safer way. HEAVE TO to both raise and lower the main. That makes the head sail First OUT and Last IN. I usually heave to with 80-90 of the head sail.

Randy:

Can you provide me with a more detailed set of steps Please keep the steps simple. I am only slightly less dumb than dirt. I am somewhat familiar with "heaving to". I used to do that on S/V Tadpole all the time both for practice and to have a sandwich, etc.

I never heaved to as part of raising sails. I was always told raise the main first, then deploy the jib/Genoa. When dropping sails, drop or furl the jib/Genoa, then drop the main. I always tried to have her pointed into the wind to reduce effort in raising and to make sure when lowering that the main and jib came down in the cockpit or on the deck and not in the water.

My Cape Dory 25D does NOT have lazy jacks. If I am hove to, I would think the main/boom would be off to the port side of the cockpit - if on starboard tack. When I drop the main (without lazy jacks) I am assuming a portion of the main will end up over the side.

Are lazy jacks something I should install ASAP or wait My plan was to install either a Mack Pack or Doyle Pack and as part of that installation I would install lazy jacks. Now that I am postponing installation of "the Pack", should I nevertheless install lazy jacks now or wait

[Dick Kobayashi]

I have one. Semi-useless. Can't get the main up without hanging up a slug mostly and can't get enough pull to really tension the luff either. Releasing the halyard at the cabin top does not cause the main to DROP, only to slide partway down in optimum conditions. As a consequence I go to the mast twice on every sail. And I am used to it and comfortable with it. All this is a consequence of experience, not book learning or thread reading. Winch came with the boat - but if it disappeared, I would not miss it.

[Dick Kobayashi]

I took the LJs off Susan B. The battens get hung up in them. And with the sail completely down I can handle it. I do have a suggestion for fast sail ties. Get an appropriate length of nylon tape about 2 inches wide. Sew (not glue) velcro to 8 inched +/- of each end...and you have self attaching sail ties that cost practically nothing. If I get one around the center of the sail on the boom I have basic control and can neaten up later. (Remember, I almost always go forward to get a portion of the sail down and I take one or two of these ties with me.) All material is available at any sewing supply shop. If you can't sew you can charm someone into doing it for you.

[rtbates]

I was hot to move lines back to the cockpit BEFORE I sailed our 25D. Then I discovered a much easier and safer way. HEAVE TO to both raise and lower the main. That makes the head sail First OUT and Last IN. I usually heave to with 80-90 of the head sail.

Randy:

Can you provide me with a more detailed set of steps Please keep the steps simple. I am only slightly less dumb than dirt. I am somewhat familiar with "heaving to". I used to do that on S/V Tadpole all the time both for practice and to have a sandwich, etc.

I never heaved to as part of raising sails. I was always told raise the main first, then deploy the jib/Genoa. When dropping sails, drop or furl the jib/Genoa, then drop the main. I always tried to have her pointed into the wind to reduce effort in raising and to make sure when lowering that the main and jib came down in the cockpit or on the deck and not in the water.

My Cape Dory 25D does NOT have lazy jacks. If I am hove to, I would think the main/boom would be off to the port side of the cockpit - if on starboard tack. When I drop the main (without lazy jacks) I am assuming a portion of the main will end up over the side.

Are lazy jacks something I should install ASAP or wait My plan was to install either a Mack Pack or Doyle Pack and as part of that installation I would install lazy jacks. Now that I am postponing installation of "the Pack", should I nevertheless install lazy jacks now or wait

First let me say that while lazy jacks can be nice they are not necessary.

1. motor out
2. shut off motor
3. let out less than 100 of genoa .MUST HAVE A ROLLER?REEFER HEADSAIL
4. Wait for bow to fall off and place tiller to leeward
5. Pay attention to how she lies to the wind. I have lots of cockpit canvas so can heave to w/o problem with just the headsail.
6. Once she's settled and fore reaching with the bow 45 or so off the wind wait until the bow starts swinging to windward and push the boom out as you raise the sail QUICKLY.
7. Go back and release the tiller and let out as much headsail as you like.

For taking down:
1. Roll in all but 80-90 of the headsail.
2. sheet in the main
3. Place tiller to leeward
4. After she settles go to mast and drop main as she's pivoting to windward
5. roll in rest of headsail
6. go home

[Sea Hunt Video]

Hello Fred:

That is excellent advise. I was taught years ago "plan it, visualize it, execute it". That and some clever "mnemonics" (sp. ) helped me through a few close calls.

Having taken up sailing in my latter years I always go out just for fun with no real plan or goals. Thus, I forget to plan things. With my new-to-me Cape Dory 25D I think I will have to carefully plan some things in advance. As you suggest, going forward to the bow or mast is one thing that I will have to learn to think about before doing it.

Unfortunately, I do not think there are any Cape Dory 25D sailors anywhere near South Florida. I assume CD 27s, CD 28s, CD 32s, etc. behave similarly and I will be able to apply their techniques to my CD 25D.

Randy, thanks very much for the detailed explanation. I understand and will try it out once she is in South Florida. My only thought is that I would not turn off the Yanmar until my sails were deployed the way I wanted them. For me, just a safety factor. And when dousing sails I was told start the Yanmar first, then douse sails.

Right now our sailing club is trying to decide whether to evacuate our mooring field or stand by for further developments. I'm just "waiting on the word". It looks like, at a minimum we are going to get at least a glancing blow from Hurricane Irene, possibly worse. I made the right decision in keeping my CD 25D up north until October. I will have time to help others prepare.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at4.sh ... e#contents

[Joe Myerson]

Robert,

I haven't been checking this board recently, because I was sailing for the past two days (double-reefed main). But here are some of my observations:

1) Lazy Jacks: You don't need them, but you might want to look up the thread on "Easy Jacks." I've installed these, and they help a bit with handling the main. The main on a 25D isn't all that big.

2) Raising the sails: WITHOUT AUTOPILOT: I've never done so while hove-to. I used to head into the wind, turn off the engine (or shift to neutral) and rush forward, raise the main and then unfurl the jib.

WITH AUTOPILOT: Head directly into wind, set autopilot, adjust throttle so boat is nearly standing still. Move to foredeck and raise sail.

3) Heaving-to: Randy's description of the procedure is pretty much on target. I probably do this at least once a day, as I usually have to tuck in a reef when the afternoon wind picks up. Here's what works for me, when heaving-to while under way in high winds:

a) On a port tack, furl the genny to at least 110%.
b) Backwind the jib (bringing you onto a starboard tack).
c) Lash tiller hard to leeward (so rudder is to windward)
d) pull boom as close to the centerline as possible.
e) begin reefing procedure.

I have found that if I heave-to with too much headsail out, the boat tends to broadside to the wind (and waves). Ideally, you want to heave-to at about a 45-degree angle to the wind and seas.

FINAL NOTE: None of these procedures are etched in stone. Don't head onto the water loaded down with printouts from the CD Board, rather develop your own ways of doing things.

Then, before you know it, you'll be contributing suggestions of your own.

Best,

--Joe

[Astronomertoo]

Hi guys,
You have listed and included nice photos of the same improvements I have added to my previous sailboats, and will shortly add to our "new" 1975 CD25. I will be installing the bottom mast organizer, the turning blocks for all for the halyards, boom vang, and and a simple winch on the cabin top as discussed. I firmly believe in a downhaul line clipped to the mainsail halyard shackle for pulling it down from the cockpit and never had hangups. When I had hank on jibs I did the same with their downhaul line too. The purpose of all those is to make the tasks easier, and safer for YOU, such that tidying up after can normally be done under less than hectic conditions. Note, the force required for main downhaul and topping lift, even on windy days is mild, so they only require a smaller line and a simpler, cheaper cam cleat, not a heavy $$ stopper/clutch. A typical surgeons knot at the cockpit end of all the lines means you will never have one run away when you need it.
Best wishes,
BobC
Citrus Springs
Moon Shine