Doyle Stack Pack, Mack Pack or other or none of the above?

[Sea Hunt Video]

As mentioned in another thread, I am in the process of thinking of improvements I can make to my new-to-me Cape Dory 25D so that it will be easier for me to sail single handed.

One of the items I am considering is a system to drop the mainsail quickly single handed and not have to worry too much about gathering up cloth, etc.

At present my CD 25D has an "older" main sail (but in good condition) and no lazy jacks or other "sail gathering system".

I am told there are two similar systems on the market today:

http://www.doylesails.com/cruising/stackpack/index.html

http://macksails.com/mackpack.htm

I have been reading various websites to get an idea of whether either one is worth the cost and the pros and cons of each.

I know of one person who has such a system (not sure if it is Doyle or Mack) on their Cape Dory 33. My recollection is this person likes it.

So, what are the experiences and thoughts of Cape Dorians about a Doyle Stack Pack or a Mack Pack or other similar system Or, should I just install lazy jacks or nothing at all

Thanks in advance for any and all information, experiences, suggestions, etc.

[rodcapedory]

Robert

We put lazy jacks on our 330 and were not happy with them. Next year we put on a Mack pack and we love it so much my wife Maggie could be Mack pack salesman. She does most of the deck work when we take the main down and she loves it .

Rod and Maggie Croes
cd 330
GEMS

[bottomscraper]

We have a Mack Pack and love it. It's a bit baggy and may not be the best looking thing but it's super easy to use. The Mack Pack works with your existing mainsail without any modification. The Doyle Stack Pack is essentially part of the sail. We have used both (Stack Pack on a charter), both work well, Stack Pack looks better but requires a new sail.

http://macksails.com/mackpack.htm

http://www.doylesails.com/cruising/stackpack/index.html

[Zeida]

Robert... either one of the two systems you mention will make your life soooo much easier... get the one that will work with your existing main sail, AS IS. Possibly they will try to sell you to convert to full battens on the main... you do NOT need that on the 25. It will only make the sail heavier to hoist and work with... more difficult to remove when you need to. Keep your main as you have it. It possibly has medium size battens. Those are all you need. Other than that, it will be a good, useful addition.
Also, I hope you have a bimini... or start planning for one. Down here you will absolutely need it.

Bandolera II

[Sea Hunt Video]

Hello Melissa and Rich:

In doing some additional "research" on this board I noticed that Melissa posted a few months ago about the advantages of having a mainsheet led back to the cockpit - primarily for dropping the main. Melissa mentioned "Strong Stack".

Melissa, is this the website you were referring to

http://www.tidesmarine.com/sail-track.shtml

If so, is it part of what is installed with the Mack Pack or is it something you decided to install separately

Thanks. Sorry for so many dumb questions. Unfortunately, when you are inexperienced and dumb, the dumb questions just seem to grow exponentially (my new word for the day- no idea if I am using it correctly )

[Sea Hunt Video]

Hello Zeida:

Sorry I missed your post. I guess we crossed paths. Please send me a PM and let me know whether you have the Doyle or Mack system. I remember you said it was a big help.

I am not a big fan of Biminis while sailing. Two reasons. First, when I learned, I learned on sailboats with no Biminis. I could always see my main, jib, etc. Not that I had any idea of what they should look like but it was comforting to know I could see them.

Second, I remain a very inexperienced sailor. In my experiences with S/V Tadpole I constantly needed to check the main and jib and try to adjust sails so as not to look like a complete doofus. I rarely succeeded but I tried.

I think a Bimini would significantly interfere with my limited sailing skills. The prior owner of S/V Tadpole installed a beautiful Bimini. I used it once while under sail and did not like it. I did use it frequently once anchored or at a dock or mooring but not while sailing.

My new-to-me Cape Dory 25D does have a very nice dodger (not much sun protection - I know). My plan is to rig a canvas cover for the cockpit using a silver reflective tarp, two small diameter PVC pipes (flexible) and some bungee cords. I saw this on a friends Typhoon Weekender at the sailing club and also in one of the sailing magazines. I would install it after anchoring, docking, etc.

[Neil Gordon]

Follow the advice given in the other thread and sail your boat as is and without added gizmos. Do this for a while and you'll be better positioned to know what you want and/or need and better prioritize where you spend your boat bucks.

I've been sailing my 28 for 15 years without any means of taming the main than standing alongside the boom and gathering it in. Once the main is down, the boat pretty much sits quietly until I'm done.

(Hint: If the wind is up a bit, hauling in on the reefing line once the main is down makes the job a bit easier.)

[Bill Goldsmith]

I did as Neil recommends and sailed my first Cape Dory (Second Chance, CD 27) without new gizmos for a while. When I ordered a new Main from Mack, they made a Mack Pack for me at a discount, and it quickly became my favorite gizmo. It's a great lazy jack system and a "drop-in" sail cover that zips up on top. It has the ability to be retracted in two ways--the cover can be retracted and tied to the boom and the lazy jacks can be retracted forward out of the way for those worried about windage, or getting an extra .1 knot in a race.

I loved it so much, I had one made for my CD32 even though I have not put new sails on her since purchase.

[kmulligan]

I too sailed my CD 28 for a year before making any major improvements after I launched in late 2001. But the Doyle Stack Pack and a new full batten mainsail were the first of my improvements after the old Volvo was replaced with a new Yanmar.
I like the stack pack for ease of dousing the main but it has several minor glitches. You can't use a loose footed main, it's big and accounts for some windage when you're easing into a dock or slip and it does not go on the boom easily (takes 2 people about an hour to slide it into the track with the sail in between) which discourages taking it off the boat for a thorough cleaning.
But for single-handed sailing it can't be beat. I would also advise to go with a bimini with a window for sail trim as soon as you are able. I've known two Florida sailors who had to give it up due to melanoma.
Kevin Mulligan
CD 28 # 226, "Skibbereen"
Crystal River, Fl.

[JAS]

I've had a Mack pack on my CD31 for 3 seasons and love it. Just keep the installation instructions to rerig at season launch.

[bottomscraper]

Hello Melissa and Rich:

In doing some additional "research" on this board I noticed that Melissa posted a few months ago about the advantages of having a mainsheet led back to the cockpit - primarily for dropping the main. Melissa mentioned "Strong Stack".

Melissa, is this the website you were referring to

http://www.tidesmarine.com/sail-track.shtml

If so, is it part of what is installed with the Mack Pack or is it something you decided to install separately

The "Strong Track" was installed separately. Neil's advice of sailing
the boat as-is before you make any significant investments is good
advice. I suspect sail track may be overkill for a 25D. The original
sail cover that came with Mahalo was either shrunk or just too small.
Putting it on involved using words that we don't use on the CD board.
It was high on our priority list. We sailed Mahalo for the first season
without making any significant changes. Find out what works for you
and what doesn't. For us the things that we changed first were the
old Hood "line drive" furlers, the "Mack Pack" and a new VHF, coax
and antenna. Your list may be different. Yes "Tides Marine" makes
the track we have, they seem to no longer use the "Strong Track"
name, but it looks the same.

[mahalocd36]

I'll second Rich's advice here.

One of our worst boat mistakes was, on our previous boat, was to spend a LOT of time and $$ getting her ready to sail the way we thought we wanted her, before sailing it (or even significant time sailing it). Then, we sailed it for a year, decided it wasn't the right boat for us, and the new owner made out like a bandit with a fixed up, well-equipped boat for a bargain (you don't get your money back on most improvements).

So, with Mahalo we took a different approach, which worked out very well. We spent a minimal amount of time and effort on her before the first season. Sailed it the way it was, and obviously replaced any real issues ASAP but in general kept equipment the same for the first season. Then prioritized the list of the things we wanted to change, and did it gradually over time. If we had tried to do that from the beginning we'd lost precious sailing time and probably made some expensive mistakes....

Plus, if you live with something you don't like for just a little bit, the improvement seems all the much better I'm sure you'll love your 25D, but who knows, maybe a year or two you'll decide to get a 28 or 31?

[Sea Hunt Video]

I'm sure you'll love your 25D, but who knows, maybe a year or two you'll decide to get a 28 or 31?

Melissa, I intend no offense but . . . Blasphemy Blasphemy I say

[Zeida]

Hi Robert...

I have the Doyle StackPack on Bandolera. And yes, it did make my life a lot easier on the 33. I also had the Tides Marine strong track installed.
The idea was to make it easier for me (5'3" and 125 lbs.) as a singlehander to hoist the HUGE mainsail on the 33.. so that the sail lugs would glide up and down that track. Then they recommended that to have the sail at its most efficient I should convert it to full battens... which I did. Mistake. You have seen the Harken ads for their Batt Cars...well, I ended up with something similar. Now my mainsail has SS lugs -adding weight- plus full length battens, even more weight. My old main is HEAVIER now than it used to be. Too late now. However, I do use some liquid soap that I squeeze into those sail lugs and into the strong track, and it does help to ease the movement of the sail lugs up and down that strong track. All together, it has made the rig stronger, yes, but heavier... which was not my original idea.
Plus when the storms do finally come, no way I am taking that main out of the boom, under its present arrangement.

It became a loose-footed main in order to work with the StackPack, but after the Tides marine track, those battens are SCREWED into the cars... too much trouble. I just lower the boom with sail attached, into the cockpit and secure the whole thing there. I do remove the genoa, when needed... not the main.

As for the bimini, on your Ty, you did not spend enough time on it to really get a sun stroke... but my friend, if you spend an entire day out there, and I suspect you will with the new 25, you will not be able to survive the heat. Like you I resisted the bimini for the first six months in Florida, since I learned to sail and b ought my 25 in Boston. Sure, up there you do not need it, and the bimini feels like an encroachment in the otherwise freedom of sailing "au natural"... I will hear you singing a different tune right after the upcoming winter is over. At least, Im glad you have a nice dodger. It does help when you get caught in a squall, and you can still dash inside without getting the interior boat wet. Cheers!

[trapper]

Zeida is so right about a bimini in hot venues. My 25D has an oversized and admittedly ugly bimini but it is SO useful and necessary.

Soon after we purchased the boat, we changed marinas. We had worked on the engine and thought she could make the 8 mile trip in a couple hours under power. The old tattered bimini had been removed to make a new cover. There were 4 of us on board with a 6 pack of water and a 6 pack of beer. Her water tanks had not been emptied, cleaned or refreshed in three years, so the water tank was rank.

We left the Stono at about 11 am on a very hot July day headed for Dolpins Cove on the Ashley in Charleston. Just after making the Wapoo bridge, the engine stopped. We did everything we could to restart the engine, but to no avail. We dropped the hook and called SeaTow and they arrived hours later. They towed us to our old mooring near California Dreaming, and we took the dink to California Dreaming's dock for much needed libation around 5 pm. We were cooked!

NEVER will I embark on any vessel in southern waters , in the summer without a very large bimini or other cockpit cover.

A bimini in Florida is not a luxury, it is a necessity unless you intend to park your boat from May until September.

A dodger is great and I will install one on Saga at some point in time, but a bimini is a necessity in the south.

So, if you do not have one, I think that is your first priority. Dodgers are great for spray and they make a blustery winter day more comfortable but they don't do much for the sun.

You are not likely going to freeze to death in Fl but you could get cooked! Anyway, that is my HO.