I could use some varnish help . Is there a way to save multiple layers (i.e, years) of varnish that has started to seperate from the wood. I think this was caused by water intrusion in the seam between fiberglass and wood during the winter. I could take it off (my prefered method is a heat gun) but that kills years of effort. I'm thinking of things like injecting epoxy into the void between the varnish and the teak? Heating the area and injecting thinned varnish in the void ? Banging my head against the void !
Len
varnish woes
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Dick Villamil
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 16:42
- Location: CD Typhoon, Victoria, Essex Jct. VT
teak woes
All I know about teak is that it has oils in it that gradually release the hold that varnish has with the wood. Perhaps the moisture helped but the separation means that you should start from scratch. Unless you can remove the lifted varnish and put up with the difference between old and new varnish. Wipe the teak with acetone after sanding - this removes the surface oils so the varnish (and/or epoxy) gets a "bite" into the wood. I have found that a gentle heat gun and "pull" scraper works best and avoids gouging the wood as with a "push" scraper.
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Sea Hunt Video
- Posts: 2561
- Joined: May 4th, '11, 19:03
- Location: Former caretaker S/V Bali Ha'i 1982 CD 25D; Hull 69 and S/V Tadpole Typhoon Week
Hello Len:
I agree with Dick V. Remove the old varnish. Your Robinhood 36 is a beauty. Injecting epoxy, etc. would not give her the beauty she deserves.
The link below is to a April 2011 article in SAIL magazine by Don Casey discussing the various varnishes, sealers, teak oils, etc. I think he prefers Spar Varnish for his sailboat.
http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/maint ... index.html
On my Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender I used Cetol Marine Natural Teak (3 coats) and Cetol Clear Gloss (2 coats). It lasted very, very well and looked nice. It is an alternative to the labor intensive Spar Varnish process.
I agree with Dick V. Remove the old varnish. Your Robinhood 36 is a beauty. Injecting epoxy, etc. would not give her the beauty she deserves.
The link below is to a April 2011 article in SAIL magazine by Don Casey discussing the various varnishes, sealers, teak oils, etc. I think he prefers Spar Varnish for his sailboat.
http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/maint ... index.html
On my Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender I used Cetol Marine Natural Teak (3 coats) and Cetol Clear Gloss (2 coats). It lasted very, very well and looked nice. It is an alternative to the labor intensive Spar Varnish process.
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Banging my head against the void
If the areas are relatively small you can scrape the bad spots. Just the bad plus about an inch all the way around. Then sand with 80 grit. Build about six quick coats working wet on wet (apply a coat as soon as the last coat gets tacky). With the heat we have been having this could be done in two days. Let the patch(es) dry for several days and sand with ~150 grit and give it a careful coat. This would also be a good time to give all the brite work a coat.
Note this isn't a school solution, but it usually works.
Note this isn't a school solution, but it usually works.
Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei
S/V Isa Lei
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Varnish
Strongly endorse Don Casey's recommendation.
The key word here is phenolic. (think iron handles)
Unfortunately phenolic is substantially more expensive than alkyd
and most paint manufacturers substitute and the result is garbage imho.
The delamination failure you describe was most probably caused by either:
failure to remove surface oil with an effective solvent wash,
or failure to seal the wood with clear epoxy before varnishing,
thereby allowing the wood to expand and contract with changes in RH.
(That does not happen with an epoxy seal)
The recommendation is to read up (how to break in) a new badger hair brush, and how to flow coat phenolic varnish and get results like this:
Dick
The key word here is phenolic. (think iron handles)
Unfortunately phenolic is substantially more expensive than alkyd
and most paint manufacturers substitute and the result is garbage imho.
The delamination failure you describe was most probably caused by either:
failure to remove surface oil with an effective solvent wash,
or failure to seal the wood with clear epoxy before varnishing,
thereby allowing the wood to expand and contract with changes in RH.
(That does not happen with an epoxy seal)
The recommendation is to read up (how to break in) a new badger hair brush, and how to flow coat phenolic varnish and get results like this:
Dick
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sfreihofer
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 22:05
- Location: 1981 Cape Dory 25 #794, S/V PEARL
- Contact:
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Sally Perreten
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mar 16th, '07, 08:45
- Location: Typhoon weekender Echo, Stonington, CT
Best information
The answer to every varnish question, engagingly written: "The Brightwork Companion" by Rebecca Wittman, the author of "Brightwork: the art of Finishing Wood". That one is really expensive, and all you need is in the Companion book, a paperback that will leave your beer money in your pocket.
Sally
Sally
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
PM sent.sfreihofer wrote:That is indeed a beautiful finish, Dick!
So, I have a question.
Can you make it simple for me and be SPECIFIC on a brand name? That would save me the trouble of researching....
Thanks again.
Stan
BTW, after breaking in and using my Badger hair brushes, I saturate with motor oil and wrap in Aluminum foil for long term storage.
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SurryMark
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Nov 18th, '08, 10:04
- Location: Formerly CD27Y, Tula. Now Luders Sea Sprite 34
- Contact:
aesthetic adjustment
You see cruising boats with places where lifted varnish has been scraped and redone, places where old varnish was just scuffed and recoated, spots where darkened wood was varnished over - but all in all it looks maintained. Then, at some point, time and money is put into starting over (or let it all go gray, or change to paint). To my eye, that's a good look. There's nothing wrong with an even, well-applied finish everywhere, but there's a difference between maintaining a boat and making a statement about the effort and expense you'll go to in order to shine on the dock. Have I opened the worm can?
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Re: aesthetic adjustment
Not shine at the dock, but shine in a blow.SurryMark wrote: but there's a difference between maintaining a boat and making a statement about the effort and expense you'll go to in order to shine on the dock. Have I opened the worm can?
Make a statement? Yes! the same goes for my shotguns, fly rods and bird dogs, all the finest money can buy.
But! that does not apply to the grunges I wear, the wreck I drive, nor the low life misfits like me, whom I call friends, and are near and dear to my heart.
Dick
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wsonntag
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Apr 16th, '08, 17:13
- Location: Cape Dory 31 Hull No. 30
SURPRISE
Georgetown Maryland
Member Since 2005
Scratch and Patch
You can scratch and patch (scrape, sand) patches of standard varnish and get a fairly good match if the wood has not darkened. Even then, some careful use of Te-ka A/B can lighten the wood. Also after repair, try running a seam of clear caulk where you know water has lifted the varnish. I have kept a clean seam at inboard side, toerail and deck over the years that slowed water intrusion.
And, there is no product you can use that beats a Cape Dory in bright varnish! I kept mine bright for ten years, eventually the finish broadly fell apart, I stripped to bare wood. Let it go grey, its taken me 4 years to find the time and energy to put her back to rights. Coamings, transom cap rail, companion way sliders all done, now for the hand rails. I'm also planning to buy new teak stock to replace the "eyebrow rails" trim along the coach roof above the portlights. Too many sandings, scraping have left it sadly diminished, can't hold a bung over the screw heads. Maybe I'll customize it a bit - more width over the portlights, maybe cooper flashing rain guards........
I posted something here a few weeks ago, I'm using a Fein Multimaster 250 sanding, finish tool for this work, made the difference for me, helped get this job started.
Bill Sonntag
CD 31
SURPRISE
And, there is no product you can use that beats a Cape Dory in bright varnish! I kept mine bright for ten years, eventually the finish broadly fell apart, I stripped to bare wood. Let it go grey, its taken me 4 years to find the time and energy to put her back to rights. Coamings, transom cap rail, companion way sliders all done, now for the hand rails. I'm also planning to buy new teak stock to replace the "eyebrow rails" trim along the coach roof above the portlights. Too many sandings, scraping have left it sadly diminished, can't hold a bung over the screw heads. Maybe I'll customize it a bit - more width over the portlights, maybe cooper flashing rain guards........
I posted something here a few weeks ago, I'm using a Fein Multimaster 250 sanding, finish tool for this work, made the difference for me, helped get this job started.
Bill Sonntag
CD 31
SURPRISE