Willcox-Crittenden Flagpole Socket

[Bill Goldsmith]

Hi everyone. Loonsong's flagpole socket is badly tarnished and I am looking for alternatives. It's a Willcox-Crittenden part, with a 3" base and a 1 1/4" socket. I am fairly sure it is chromed brass, and it's nice and heavy, much stouter than the readily-available models from the leading marine retailers.

Moreover, the readily-available models from the leading marine retailers only have a 2 1/2" base and their base flanges don't even cover the screwhole pattern in my taffrail from the WC model.

I called a couple of metal refinishers and it seems the cost of replating it will greatly exceed reasonableness.

I looked on eBay and there actually was one WC flagpole socket, but no measurements. Worse, it was an upright socket which won't work.

I am starting to think I will need to bung the old holes in my taffrail and start with a new one that is readily available.

Any other ideas?


<img width="600" src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36993566/WC%20F ... Socket.jpg">

[Joe CD MS 300]

Bill.

I have a similar bronze fitting on my CD, my guess it is an original Spartan part that may still be available from Spartan. An alternative would be to just remove the chrome. As the chrome is coming off itself it might not be that hard to remove. It looks like it could be bronze from the picture. In any case a brass fitting for a flag should not be a problem.

Joe

[Oswego John]

Hi Bill,

There is hardly anything as beautiful as a piece of shiny, polished, chrome boat hardware.

That being said and considering finding a quality, new socket at a reasonable price or paying through the nose for replating, there aren't too many alternatives.

At this time, I should warn anyone who might try to DIY chrome plate in the home workshop, be very careful. The process of chrome plating emits noxious, DEADLY fumes.

The cost of gearing up to plate one piece of metal, including safety precautions, is far from being cost effective. There is one quick fix that comes to mind. Like I said, it is a temporary fix that might get you through the season while you continue to search for an alternative solution.

You might consider removing all traces of tarnish with something like Brasso or Tarnex. Remove any loose plating and wash and rinse thoroughly.

Then, using a propane or mapp torch, heat the socket and coat it with solder, smoothing the hot solder with a wiping cloth. The socket won't look as elegant as if it had chrome plating but it will hide the tarnish and give the socket a uniform appearance until you find a new one.

One thing maybe worth mentioning, solder can be polished with fine steel or bronze wool, fine emery cloth or crocus cloth. Then it can be either waxed or sprayed with an aerosol can of lacquer protective coating.

Good luck until a better solution comes along.

O J

[Steve Laume]

I would it very hard to rid myself of the original one.

I would go at the thing with an aggressive wire wheel and sandpaper to get off as much as the chrome as possible, then take it to the buffing wheel.

If that sounds like too much work, you might get back on the phone with the metal guys and see what they would charge just to remove the old chrome.

Once you polish it up, even if there is some chrome left it will not show too badly. That is a mighty fine fitting to give up on and I believe it would look even better if it was bronze instead of chrome, Steve.

[doubleb]

Well my 2 cents.
The wife and I sort of collect antiques, (old stuff) for the house, and boat. and some things were just meant to age with grace and look good doing it. (Seasoned) If I told her I was going to shine up the bronze and remove the patina. You would rather stick a hot poker up your nose. If it’s SS and shiny it stays that way, if it’s bronze or chrome plated bronze it is maintained but allowed to age with grace. Some things need to be left.
Reinstall it and watch it get better with age.
Old glory looks good where ever it’s put.
It is an old good boat.
Just my 2 cents.
B.B.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Old glory looks good where ever it’s put.

[Steve Bryant]

Bill,

If you are looking for a new one, Perko has a flagpole socket that seems similar in quality and size to your WC model. Runs anywhere from $65-$75. Check Jamestown Distributors and iboat.com

0221DP3CHR - Perko

13 Degree angle stern socket.
Inner socket Diameter: 1-1/4"
Outer Diameter: 2-3/4"
Height Overall: 2-1/8"
Screw Size # 8
Chrome Plated Bronze.

[Bill Goldsmith]

Well my 2 cents.
The wife and I sort of collect antiques, (old stuff) for the house, and boat. and some things were just meant to age with grace and look good doing it. (Seasoned) If I told her I was going to shine up the bronze and remove the patina. You would rather stick a hot poker up your nose. If it’s SS and shiny it stays that way, if it’s bronze or chrome plated bronze it is maintained but allowed to age with grace. Some things need to be left.
Reinstall it and watch it get better with age.
Old glory looks good where ever it’s put.
It is an old good boat.
Just my 2 cents.
B.B.

I LOVE THIS BOARD. Great sentiments. I may just do that.

[Bill Goldsmith]

Bill,

If you are looking for a new one, Perko has a flagpole socket that seems similar in quality and size to your WC model. Runs anywhere from $65-$75. Check Jamestown Distributors and iboat.com

0221DP3CHR - Perko

13 Degree angle stern socket.
Inner socket Diameter: 1-1/4"
Outer Diameter: 2-3/4"
Height Overall: 2-1/8"
Screw Size # 8
Chrome Plated Bronze.

Thanks Steve. That 2 3/4" base flange might actually cover the old screwholes, However, a problem with the part you found is that the original WC is significantly raked, whereas this one (and most of the ones I have seen) are too upright--the flagpole will barely clear the stern railing at 13 degrees. The original part's rake (60 degrees??) looks really nice with Old Glory on it, flying off a Cape Dory stern.

[Oswego John]

I'm Baaaaack,

Hi Bill,

When insurmountable problems arise for my projects, I always say to myself, "What would Rube Goldberg Do?"

Rube inspired me to suggest fabricating a teak "washer" sliced at a bevel to produce the required angle. This would be similar to a beveled wedge placed under a depth finder inside the hull.

The wooden, angled adapter would be placed between the taff trim and the bottom of the flagpole socket.

An added bonus when using the angled plate is that its dimensions could be great enough to cover any unused screw locations.

Whatever, I guess that I'm thinking out of the box again.

O J

[Steve Darwin]

I found a nice old W&C flagstaff socket in similar condition at a flea market. Removed the remaining chrome with a palm sander, then polished with fine sandpaper and a wire brush. After a few weeks on the taffrail, it acquired a nice verdigris. Haven't touched it since, and it looks like it belongs with the other bronze fittings. Polished chrome looks great on automobiles and power boats, but I don't care for it on sailboats. To each their own. BTW, the strongly acidic On-and-Off cleaning liquid will quickly turn any of your bronze green, as I discovered by accident...

[doubleb]

OK I changed my mind.
Send it to me,
I will install it on Air Raid and let it age for say?? 3 or 4 years. Then send it back to you.
If you are not pleased with the outcome send it back to me I will reinstall it and let it age some more. and then repeat the process.

Just a thought
All I have now is a rail flag mount. sob,sob,pout,

B.B.

[doubleb]

I hear that Willcox-Crittenden stuff is crap anyway. look at yours. Damn chrome is comming off.

[Steve Laume]

I hear that Willcox-Crittenden stuff is crap anyway. look at yours. Damn chrome is comming off.

He, he, I think you are right. What kind of junk hardware starts to lose it's finish after a mere 25 years or so. The old WC stuff is also way too heavy. There must be some aluminum or even carbon fiber replacements that would be far better than that old bronze stuff.

If anyone notices similar breakdown in chrome or their bronze starts to get all green and nasty, you could send it to me for proper disposal, Steve.

[Bill Goldsmith]

I hear that Willcox-Crittenden stuff is crap anyway. look at yours. Damn chrome is comming off.

He, he, I think you are right. What kind of junk hardware starts to lose it's finish after a mere 25 years or so. The old WC stuff is also way too heavy. There must be some aluminum or even carbon fiber replacements that would be far better than that old bronze stuff.

If anyone notices similar breakdown in chrome or their bronze starts to get all green and nasty, you could send it to me for proper disposal, Steve.

Tough crowd...