Windvane self steering for CD25

[riveredge]

I'm looking into vane steering for my newly purchased 1980 CD 25. I'd like to know if any other CD25's have been outfitted with self steering such as Pacific Light, Monitor or Cape Horn. I welcome all advice and recommendations. I'm wondering why I don't think I've ever seen wind vane self steering hanging off the back of any of the Cape Dorys I've seen in person and on line.

[Jim Davis]

Back when the 25 was first in production, windvanes and "sheet to tiller" rigs were the only things available. I had a QME vane on my 25 from '74 to about '85. It worked but wasn't real great. In the mid '80's Autohelm came out with a small autopilot that worked surprisingly well and didn't eat the battery. Once I made the change I got rid of the vane. A 25 really doesn't need extra weight on the stern and one of the smallest autopilots will do a better job under most conditions. For a larger boat doing extended long distance trips a windvane makes sense, but for what 99% of the boats in the general size of a 25 are used for, I think you would be happier and money ahead with an autopilot.

I should add that I used the autopilot almost all the time underway, except dead down wind or real broad reaches with stronger winds/seas when the boat had a tendency to broach. I used the 25 for several offshore trips and my wife and I would take two week vacations on it.

[seadog6532]

We have an Aries on our CD30K and I know of at least one other CD30 with a Monitor.

[riveredge]

I appreciate your responses. My friends are all day sailors without self steering so what I know is what I've read. The cw seems to be that electric autopilots are good for motoring and vanes are good for sailing. Maybe I'll start with a small Autohelm and see how far I get with it. I see your point about added stern weight. Still I like the idea of an electricity free set up.

[Ron Churgin]

In my experience, my ST-2000 autopilot works better for sailing than motoring. It has been a delight to be freed from the tiller when sailing. I trust it less when motoring, there seems to be more wavering from the course.

I motor mostly in narrow channels where leaving the channel often means running aground. This might have something to do with my experience. But when sailing in the open if the sails are balanced well the autopilot is a delight. Not much of a battery draw either.

[David van den Burgh]

I'm looking into vane steering for my newly purchased 1980 CD 25. I'd like to know if any other CD25's have been outfitted with self steering such as Pacific Light, Monitor or Cape Horn. I welcome all advice and recommendations. I'm wondering why I don't think I've ever seen wind vane self steering hanging off the back of any of the Cape Dorys I've seen in person and on line.

A former poster, Didereaux, installed a windvane on his CD25. Here's the link: http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... highlight=. And more: http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... k+windvane. And more still: http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... k+windvane.

[Klem]

I think that the important question is why do you want a self steering setup and in what situations do you plan to use it? Your answer to these questions will help answer the question of what setup is best for you. It may even be that a sheet to tiller setup is the best. In my opinion, there are times when sheet to tiller, windvanes, and autopilots all excel and times when they all are less than optimal.

[Neil Gordon]

Ron said...

>>I motor mostly in narrow channels where leaving the channel often means running aground. <<

Which raises a good point of distinction between wind vanes and auto pilots. Vanes steer a constant course based on wind direction. Offshore where winds are steady, the bottom is deep and the traffic is light, that works. Closer in, keeping the pointy end headed in the right direction relative to obstructions becomes more important. (I'm not suggesting you don't need a good lookout either way. Just saying.)

[riveredge]

Thanks to all. Sheet to tiller is new to me, Clem. Can I stop in for a tutorial next time I'm in Gloucester?

[Jim Davis]

The first is probably more than you want to know about windvanes and autopilots
http://windpilot.com/n/pdf/bookeng.pdf

Sheet to tiller
http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

Note this is just to get you started.

Enjoy and good luck.

[riveredge]

I've got so much reading to do there is no time to buy self steering gear. And putting together all the little pieces required to experiment with sheet to tiller steering will keep me busy for months. The cost of those little blocks can add up though.

[Klem]

Sheet to tiller works great for certain things but make sure that it is what you are looking for. If you are planning on reaching on the same general course for long periods of time in an area where your exact course is not too important, it is great. However, if you are looking at self steering for help in things like sail raising or motoring, then it won't work. I just want to make sure that the solution that you pick is right for your application and I don't have an idea of what your application is at this point.

[riveredge]

After years of mostly day sailing I'm looking to make longer weekend and week-long trips. I want self steering mostly to alleviate the fatigue of extended hours at the tiller both in single handing and with one or two crew on a cruise. For thirty+ years I've been a bay sailor. For many years I sailed a Victoria 18 (similar to a Typhoon in sailing characteristics) then a Marshall 18 catboat. I mostly sail on the Hudson River at its widest point near the Tappan Zee Bridge. I'm planning to take my newly acquired CD25 down the river out to Sandy Hook, down the Jersey coast and around Long Island. Maybe farther. From what I've learned so far it seems like all the self steering systems would be beneficial and I can see that each one is better in some ways than others. Thanks to all who have taken the time to add to this thread. My initial question has been answered in that there doesn't seem to be any particular reason that vane steering is unsuitable to my boat. Mostly because of the high cost of servo pendulum vane steering I'm thinking of starting with an autohelm. I'm encouraged to hear that others don't get drained battery problems with them and that they can work well under sail. They are the only choice for self steering under power. I'm still all ears for more advice and accounts of experiences others have had with self steering.

[joelcunningham]

OK. First of all, I'm a new sailor. My cd25 was dropped in on May 27 and I've had her out ten times so far, so I just getting the hang of this. I don't have auto or wind vane, but here is what I think anyway. A sailboat sails the wind. The wind may or may not take you directly where you want to go. An autohelm will point you directly where you want to go but you might not be able to trim your sails to get good performance. On the other hand, once you have trimmed to get good performance using the wind you have, a wind vane will keep you in that mode. You will be making your best SOG. Even taking tacks and jibes into account, won't this get you where you want to go faster? It just seems that using an autohelm defeats some of the basic principles of sailing.
By the way, I'm tinkering with an idea of using water weight to steer, with a wind vane to direct the flow. I just have to figure out how to get water into the boat. Oh, wait a minute......

[Dick Kobayashi]

Riveredge,

My situation is not so different than yours when I bought Susan B 10 years ago. The Autohelm Tiller pilot has been a dream. And since I single hand alot (actually I single hand even when I have others aboard).Buy the ST2000 with might seem a bit large for your boat but when it is blowing you'll appreciate the extra power. Tiller pilots will be overcome when the wind pipes up, but the solution is simple - reduce sail. I have found that the tiller pilot in conjunction with comfort in reducing sail addresses all problems. Installation is simple and you will get many years of pleasure from having an electronic tiller slave.