Fuel tank cork float repair

[Shipscarver]

The cork float on my fuel tank gage arm chipped on the outer edge, about a 1/8 inch chip. Can epoxy be used to seal it, or will that add too much weight? I am still in PT so 2 of my friends have offered to finish the tank job (I pulled and cleaned it the week before the fall on the boat) and now they want to reinstall the gauge and put the tank back in. I don't want to go to an electric guage.

[WaywardWind]

I imagine epoxy would not be too heavy for a small corner. I do know you do NOT want to use genuine varnish, because the fuel disolves genuine varnish*. In days past, shellac was used for this very reason, and is still available in hobby stores. I am not sure if ureathane "varnish" can stand fuel or not.

*It's always amusing to hear some self-reported engine expert INSIST he could/can "smell varnish" in a carburator or fuel tank. Way back in the old days (before fuel companies fixed the fuels so they could stand long term storage, about 40 years ago) when the oil/gas mixture in outboards would turn over the winter, it was called "getting or turning to shellac" (sometimes "getting or turning to varnish") in the carb because the mixture turned brown the color and consistency of pancake syrup and got thicker and thicker until there was just a hard film left blocking everything. As shellac became less known in the public's mind, the word "varnish" became more common.

Fuel never actually "turned to varnish", nor did it ever "smell like varnish". I seem to remember that genuine varnish of old was thinned with stove alcohol.

Diesel fuel, back in the old days, would also "turn" in storage. No longer an issue, and hasn't been for quite some time. The US Dept of Defense buys both diesel and gasoline -- some of which will/might end up in long term storage and all of which might be needed in a combat situation -- without regard to any inclusion of "storage additives" in the product.

I once saw a boat fuel tank the bottom half of which held a red slurry of gasoline and Marvel Mystery Oil.

[Steve Laume]

If it is only a 1/8" piece that is missing and you are concerned about the weight of the epoxy needed to glue it back, why bother at all?

I don't think the buoyancy of the float is that critical. It does have to be able to float the arm on the gauge but has nothing to do with calibration. If it will float the gauge arm it is good.

If the whole float is disintegrating then the pieces getting drawn into a fuel line could be a problem. Encapsulating the entire cork in epoxy might work for that. I am not certain about diesel fuel and epoxy compatibility.

Years ago my BCS rototiller with Acme engine had a problem. The foam carb float became "waterloged". The parts for an Acme engine are not all that easy to come by. I made one out of White Pine and it has been doing the job in there for years.

Whatever floats, Steve.

[WaywardWind]

A cork float which is not sealed will soak up fuel until it no longer floats.

[Russell]

A cork float which is not sealed will soak up fuel until it no longer floats.

Yes, thats why the corks of wine bottles are saturated with wine to the very top after decades... sealing isnt a bad idea, but the reason stated here isnt why.

You probably dont need to do anything, unless its simply disintegrating as Steve pointed out. If thats the case, I would just buy a new float rather then epoxy. You went to a lot of effort to remove the tank and clean it, a new float isnt a bad idea.

That said, these things are notorious for failing, most people with boats as old as ours the gauges no longer work (though not for the reason our fiend WW said). Fouling(like those pesky bilge pump float switches, doesnt take much to make them stick), corrosion of moving parts, etc... If I wanted to replace mine, I would do it with a dip stick and avoid all the potential issues, its not as easy to read as an oil dipstick of course due to viscosity, but really telling the difference between wet and dry isnt all that hard.

[WaywardWind]

(I'm trying, trying, trying hold my tongue, but it IS difficult.)

Dude, are YOU saying outboard motor and auto manufacturers which built motors from the early to mid 20th century -- your grandfather and great-grandfather and maybe his uncle -- coated their carb cork floats with shellac because THEY were too stupid to know they were too dumb, dumb, dumb to know any better?

Geesh.

Shellacing cork floats went the way of the dodo bird once copper floats were invented in the 1930's and in full force by the mid 1940's.

Cork soaks up fuel and MUST be sealed ....... or sink. (Sink. That means they don't float anymore. You can tell the difference, because they are heavier in your hand.)

Ask me how I know ...... Ask someone -- me -- who fixed motors professionally back in the 1950's, when cork floats still showed up in the shop.

Once again, geesh. I'm going to sign off, and let the corks sink. I'm trying to help a fellow CD're out and I have two guys telling him that worthless, sunken cork fuel gauges are "normal" for a Cape Dory.

Shipscarver, go to a hobby store, buy some shellac and do your fuel gauge right. It'll cost you maybe $3. In the end, you'll know how much fuel is in your tank, because your gauge will tell you so.

[Russell]

WW, this is what happens when you spout BS on nearly every thread that shows up, when one finally shows up that you might actually know something about, no one is going to take your advice seriously. Sorry, you dug your own grave there.

Anyway, I stand by my advice, I may not have been a car mechanic in the 50s (heck I was born in 75), I dont claim to be an expert in anything, but I know what I said works without debate (replacing the float or just changing to dipstick) with no argument needed.

[WaywardWind]

I dont claim to be an expert in anything ...

We know. Yes, we know. (I am trying, trying, trying hard to be civil, and it IS difficult under the circumstances.)

Internet "experts" are a dime a thousand. A dime for three thousand when "the blue light special is flashing".

Shipscarver needs nothing more than $3 worth of shellac from a hobby store to do his job right.

Nothing more ...

... for the CD owner who asked for help.

Cape Dory's do NOT by nature have useless gauges, contrary to what might have been stated. Cape Dory's were/are quality boats.

WHY would anyone try to compare a cork sealer in a wine bottle (about ten parts water to one part alcohol) to a cork float in a diesel fuel tank?

BTW, the very best sealers for wine bottles made these days is made of plastic. Cork has gone the way of the dodo bird, though some customers still feel otherwise.

[CD-Sailor]

DELETED

[bottomscraper]

"Shellacing cork floats went the way of the dodo bird once copper floats were invented in the 1930's and in full force by the mid 1940's."

"Way back in the old days (before fuel companies fixed the fuels so they could stand long term storage, about 40 years ago)"

"Fuel never actually "turned to varnish", nor did it ever "smell like varnish". I seem to remember that genuine varnish of old was thinned with stove alcohol."

.

Waward please add this tag to all the "facts" that you post
so that the less informed don't get confused: #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement


Shellac coated cork floats were used on some small
gasoline engine carburetors and fuel tank gauges until at
least the mid 1970s maybe even later. Most carburetor
floats were brass, I have never seen a copper one, they
might exist. Later plastic was used for tank gauges and
some carburetor floats.

My after school job in high school (1970s) was fixing
small engines, every spring (lawn mowers) and fall
(snow blowers) we would have lots of carburetors
and fuel tanks to clean out because of stale gas. Was
it chemically varnish? Maybe, maybe not. Did it have a
distinct odor? Yes absolutely and it smelled more like
varnish than gasoline.

Genuine varnish is not thinned with alcohol, never was.
Shellac is thinned with alcohol.

Gasoline manufacturers still recommend additives for long
term storage. From the Marathon Oil web site:

How long can gasoline be safely stored?
If the container or gas tank will not be used right away, will be exposed to direct sunlight, or will be stored at temperatures above 80° F much of the time, add a fuel stabilizer/additive to the gasoline when you first buy it, prior to storage. Fuel stabilizers contain antioxidants, which prevent gum and other compounds from forming on gasoline; biocides, which prevent microbial growth; and corrosion inhibitors, which prevent the formation of rust and corrosion. Fuel stabilizers/additives are available at auto parts stores.

Many manufacturers of engines put restrictions on the amount of time gasoline should be stored before use in engines. Always refer to the manufacturer's recommendations. Freshness is improved if the container or gas tank is stored in a cool place and is kept almost 95 percent full. However, leave some headroom for gasoline to expand if it warms up in storage. Without an airspace, expansion will force liquid gasoline out of the container or distort the container.


http://www.marathonpetroleum.com/Statio ... _Gasoline/

[WaywardWind]

I give up.

I mention in passing that the United States Department of Defense agrees with me (more accurately, I agree with them) when they purchase their millions of gallons of fuel each year (some of which is stored long term and most must be considered instantly available for live fire combat situations). You can check their specs, if you want, for their specs are openly published in their RFQ's and RFP's for fuel.

I suspect nobody has ever bothered to check.

BTW, I personally has used 10+ year old fuel taken from a derilect boat in my fuel-injected car without troubles of any kind. That's because I have not seen fuel turned bad from over-age storage in nearly 40 years. I know a marina owner who uses diesel from derilect boats in his industrial equipment without problems, ever.

"Bad fuel" is the UFO stories -- the "Area 51" stories -- of the marine world.

UNCLE! I give up.

I know some will say my car quit 200 yards down the road, the industrial equipment stops dead ten minutes later. Any guess why I give up?

Little kids -- toddlers -- are TERRIFIED of thunder, because they don't understand it. Big kids -- some of them sailors -- are terrified of 3-week old fuel because ... well because ......

I say, "Let the snake oil salesmen fleece 'em, for being fleeced gives them great comfort".

I once saw a fuel tank half full of a red slurry of gasoline and Marvel Mystery Oil.

[bottomscraper]

I mention in passing that the United States Department of Defense agrees with me (more accurately, I agree with them) when they purchase their millions of gallons of fuel each year (some of which is stored long term and most must be considered instantly available for live fire combat situations). You can check their specs, if you want, for their specs are openly published in their RFQ's and RFP's for fuel.

I suspect nobody has ever bothered to check.

Yes we did check the last time your posted this bogus
argument but you again neglect the fact that the military
adds it's own stabilizer if required for long term storage,
thats why they buy it in 55 gallon drums: NSN: 6850-01-167-4788


08 Sept 2008 MIL-S-53021A, dated 25 September 1998, is hereby reactivated and may be used for either new or existing design acquisition.

MIL-S-53021A, MILITARY SPECIFICATION: STABILIZER ADDITIVE, DIESEL FUEL This military specification covers a stabilizer additive for use in diesel fuels meeting the requirements of VV-F-800 which are intended for intermediate (6-24 months) or long-term (25-60 months) storage.

What Chevron says about long term storage of Gasoline:
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodser ... orage.aspx

[Russell]

I give up.

I just spent the good part of a day rebuilding my outboard carburator due to the fuel varnishing 2 weeks ago. No its not technically "varnish", just a term thats used. I did put stabilizer in the thank, but forgot to run the engine for awhile to get stablized fuel into the carb.

The gunk in my carb was outragous, gummy, brown gunk. All jets were clogged, the float barely moved. And I know its from the several months of not using it, because just that november I had taken the carb apart and cleaned it spotless, only a month before storing it unused. And this is this 3rd time I have taken the part the carb and had to degunk it in the 7 years I have owned it, each time from periods of of non use for several months.

The gas tank filled with stabilizer will still run the engine, the smell it puts off when burned (my outboard is 2 stroke) is odd and the fuel itsself does not smell like gasoline, and thats with stabilizer. I dumped half of it in a jerry can and topped off the tank with fresh fuel and will continue mixing the old stuff in with fresh stuff until I have used it up.

Oh, and you already pointed out the difference with your car and boat. Your car is fuel injected, plus you will be burning it, not letting it sit. Lets also remember that boats are special. Go stick your car in salt water for a few months and see what happens. There is a reason we have to build things in our boats out of expensive materials. Go build yourself a mild steel fuel tank in a boat, see how long that lasts even though technically it never touches salt water. Stick one in a car, it lasts decades. I have a lot of friends with tiawan built boats with mild steel fuel and water tanks who have suffered badly because of it. You may have expertise in apples, but here we are all using oranges.

Bad fuel exists. But not for you, just like your magic CD27 which takes no water in the cockpit in rough seas without a dodger. As for what DOD says, well, oh nevermind, I dont want to get political, just go on believing them.

Thanks for "giving up", but seriously man, if you want to try to be civil, here is the recipe: Someone asks a questions, kindly post your suggestion in the thread. Other people will post their suggestions, DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE when it is not the same as yours. Engaging in conversation about those different opinions is welcome, but being an #@*(# and telling people they are wrong and you are right is not friendly discussion. Given your absolutest attitude about all things, I really suggest a civil way for you to be is to just post your input and move on, just ignore other peoples opinions. The reason you end up in arguments is because you feel the need to defend absolutely everything you say because you just cant stand not being right on everything.

[Russell]

Nice edit of your post there...

Cathy, what will it take before you finally ban this clown? Half the threads of recent weeks seem to get derailed and hijacked due to his obnoxiousness.

[Maine Sail]

Nice edit of your post there...

Cathy, what will it take before you finally ban this clown? Half the threads of recent weeks seem to get derailed and hijacked due to his obnoxiousness.

+1