steaming teak

[mattlydon]

I was thinking of steaming new toerails to avoid stressing anything, rather than just forcing them on. I figured I'd get some pvc or iron pipe, and rent a wallpaper steamer.

As I'd need 30' of pipe, I was wondering if by putting the steam in one end, would the other end be too cold? perhaps 2 steamers, one at each end, with a gap in the middle to vent?

Also, how long should I steam teak? I believe oak is supposed to be an hour or so per inch....anyone done this?

TIA,

Matt

[Oswego John]

Hi Matt,

A rule of thumb is an hour or more of constant steam (212° +) for every inch thickness of the stock being bent.

I have used 4 foot sections of stove flue pipe slid together to achieve the length needed. These can be broken down later for storage. To prevent heat loss, I wrap an old blanket several times around the pipe. Angle the pipe slightly upward from the heat source so the steam will rise and fill the pipe. You can fashion a damper at the high end of the pipe to slow down the escape of the steam. A heavy rag draped over the high end will do the trick.

In the past, I have used a propane tank from a barbecue grill for the heat source. This allows you to raise or lower the needed temperature.

Experiment with a test piece of cheaper wood to practice and get a feel for it. Wear heavy gloves. A steam burn is painful.

Are you thinking about using 30 foot pieces of teak? You might think about using several pieces of shorter lengths, mitered together. A 30 foot length (if you can find it) will take several people to manhandle it. It will be wobbling all over the place.

Here's a link that you might find useful.

http://www.danenbergboatworks.com/steam_bending.htm

Good luck.

Happy bending,

O J

[Ron M.]

I've mentioned this in the past.........there is no need to steam any woodwork on a Cape Dory. With the dimensions required the material is not difficult to coax into place with help from a few clamps. I have replaced most of the toe and rub rails on my boat without resorting to setting up the apparatus necessary to steam. The longer the piece, the easier to flex. If you want to go through all that work and expense........have a good time.
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TSSweetAngel4U

[Steve Laume]

I would check out the bending characteristics of wood before going to too much trouble with steaming the Teak. As I recall Teak does not respond well to steaming. It may be that there is so much oil in the wood that it cannot absorb enough water to make steaming work very well. If it has been kiln dried the situation will be even worse.

The bends on the rails are not that sharp that you couldn't do them dry. Starting at the bow and working your way along with clamps and fasteners should work fine. Longer pieces will make the job even easier as you will be able to use the leverage in the board. The job would be easier with some help but you could take your time and do it alone. If you set up a dutchman against the hull to hold the piece up and then use clamps or even some line to pull the end into the curve of the hull.

There should be some other people on this board who have replaced their rails and could confirm or deny the ease of bending dry, Steve.

Whoops, Ron posted while I was getting more caffeine. Thanks Steve.

[bhartley]

I easily (I mean REALLY easily) installed to coamings and toe rails on our Typhoon. The pieces were 20' long and I was able to dry fit them myself (predrilled holes in rails). I needed another set of hands for the final installation. My Ty rails weren't cut thicker than the originals, but they were VERY woggily and bent with NO problem whatsoever. Even at twice the size, they should be just fine as-is.

A friend was installing heavy teak grab rails on his lobsterman (on top of stanchions). He insisted that 8:1 was fine for the scarf joint. After breaking twice, he switched to 12:1 (as I had suggested initially) and voila! He was even nice enough to say I was right in front of my husband

[M. R. Bober]

Much better than teak. Be sure to use Old Bay seasoning and maybe pour a bit of beer in the water.


Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster, (wooden you know) VA

[bottomscraper]

Much better than teak. Be sure to use Old Bay seasoning and maybe pour a bit of beer in the water.


Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster, (wooden you know) VA

Would the beer need to be "Anchor Steam"?

[Ralph H]

Mitch,
You could always do both ... steamed then scarfed. Although I'm not sure if 12:1 is enough for a real connoisseur!

Ralph in Kinsale (where the crabs are still hiding but the steamer's ready) VA

[Oswego John]

Well, maybe a touch more on bending teak.

Ask five different persons about bending teak and you might get six different answers. Here's a seventh answer.

Can teak be steam bent? Yes, but not as readily and to the extent as other woods. Teak is classified as a hardwood, an oily hardwood. Teak wood contains silica and is a killer on cutting edges. I find that hardwoods bend easier than softwoods.

As some people mentioned, long strips of teak are readily bendable. When I answered Matt in an earlier post, most of it was with the thought in my mind that he was talking about 30 feet of steam tube. I couldn't imagine that. The longest teak that I have managed to get hold of is about 20 feet long. Locally, it has to be a special order to allow time for the lumber Company to have it delivered.

I, too, have installed rub rails and toe rails on Tys. I was able to purchase suitable lengths to install them in one piece. One time After ruining the toe rail stock on a bend, I steam bent (not a big deal as one might think) the rest of the toe rails.

The rub rail stock doesn't have to be as thick as the toe rail stock. Thinner wood bends easier than thick wood. For intricate bends or for more severe bends, I have seen the wood ripped into about 1/4" slats, bent to a form, and glued/epoxied together to make one solid, bent piece.

When working with teak, we are advised to pre-drill the wood before fastening. That has always presented a problem for me when installing toerails. First off, I drill for the screw fastenings, not so much trouble. It's when I drill crossways for the limber holes (deck scuppers) that I create trouble for my self. Added to that, I would drill additionally for plugs (bungs). After these holes are drilled, weak spots are created in the length of wood. It deterred having a smooth, natural curve in the rail. It would bend more where the holes are. When I would try to bend the dry wood, sometimes it would snap at one of the screw or limber holes. Since I began steaming, I have never had the problem arise again.

Here's a case in point that happened to another CD owner.
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Let me add this to the discussion...

I installed the toe rails without any real problems, except be aware that there is a steel plate under the deck by the shrouds, to anchor the shrouds at the chainplate(?) fittings. To secure the toe rails in this area, drill through the steel plate and then tap it for a machine screw. The problem will be finding a tap long enough to reach down through the toe rail and into the plate. The alternative is to drill through, and use a machine screw with a washer and nut under the deck. Access, to install a nut, is the problem in that scenario. So, either way, there's a problem.

The rub rail was a real PITA, because the rail kept splitting (twice) when I attempted to get it to conform to both the curvature of the hull, and the curvature of the deck. I finally was forced to trim them down a bit (I forget how much) to allow more flexibility. The weak point was the scarf joints, even though they were as nearly perfect as I could make them, and epoxy bonded. So, beware!

Stan Freihofer
1981 CD25 #794

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I would imagine that the others who replaced their toe and rub rails, because of lengths involved and the availability of teak in those lengths, installed them in sections using long scrf joints. Thats what I used to do. I used a power miter saw, in combination with a jig I built, to cut long, shallow scarfs.

When I would repair damaged sections of rub or toe rail, because of the shorter distance, I generally always heat-bent the wood. Thats right, for short pieces which didn't afford any leverage to make the curvature, I would use a heat gun mostly to the inside, concave side of the piece.

BTW, I try to double fasten on either side of a scarf joint. That's just me.

So my bottom line is, yes, teak can be bent, but not readily as with other woods. Time and patience are necessary. (plenty of each)

I'm still concerned how someone, single handed, can readily cut the toerail bevel on 30 foot stock.

Just my additional thoughts, nothing etched in stone.
O J

[mattlydon]

I picked up a 15-1/2 foot board for the job. I was planning to run a 12:1 boxed scarf, which THEN becomes a 29 foot piece.

I mentioned 30' because I thought it would be much easier to glue the scarf BEFORE steaming, as the wood is dry and straight - I wouldn't have to wait days for it to dry out enough to glue.

No real consensus on the to steam or not to steam - except that it's a pain.

Perhaps going on dry starting at the scarf and working fore and aft from there would minimize stress on the joint.

Matt

[M. R. Bober]

Mitch,
You could always do both ... steamed then scarfed. Although I'm not sure if 12:1 is enough for a real connoisseur!

Ralph in Kinsale (where the crabs are still hiding but the steamer's ready) VA

That is, of course, the exact sequence of events. Steam 'em and then scarf 'em. We could fire the kettle with teak scraps, but everyone knows there are no scraps of teak.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster, (where teak scarves are rarely used as head covers) VA

[Steve Laume]

Will these be router cut scarfs?

It's the stops that make them interesting, Steve.