Third reef in mainsail

[Dean Abramson]

I have started here a separate thread on this, because my other thread entitled "Staysail Reef, CD31" was mis-named for drawing traffic to this mainsail question.

It seems to me that there is some disagreement out there regarding third reefs in the main. (I am on the verge of adding one to our main.)

Many offshore cruising boats do have a third reef. I was reading a book by Hal Roth last night, and he believes in three reefs. As does Larry Pardey, Bill Seifert, and others. Our own John V mentions having two "deep reefs," so I am thinking that might be equivalent to three typical reefs.

[img]http://www.mainephoto.com/folios/LodaMayFromSolmar.jpg[/img]

Here is a photo of our boat. (Thanks again, whoever sent me this!) You can see both existing reefs. (The second one is just above the lowest batten.) I believe that the first reef takes away 15% of the sail, then the second takes another 20% of the total, so two reefs means a 35% reduction. Hal Roth talks of getting down to a 60% reduction through three reefs in the main, and my aim is get to a 50%-60% (reduction) range.

(By the way, and unrelated, the squarish foredeck box is now gone.)

My sailmaker does not agree that at the point you would be using this, the fabric would not be up to the task. But he does think that one would want to TIE in that reef directly to the boom through the new clew. He points out that running a reefing line down through a cheek block on the boom creates a weak point: the block. He thinks that that would be the first part to fail: the block would rip off of the boom. If, like my other cheek blocks (for the 1st and 2nd reefs), that block were screwed on, I think he is right. I am curious if anyone has cheek blocks on the boom which are thru-bolted. On the forward end, the third reef would be held by the reefing hook. (Actually a line running down TO the reefing hook, I never use the reefing hooks directly on the sail, and one would likely be unable to get that third tack down to there.)

I woud be interested in getting more feedback on this, both pro and con. If you have three reefs, what is your experience regarding plusses and minuses?

At this point I think that I would just have a line secured to the boom, ready to tie down the third-reef clew. And forget the cheek block. I know that putting that tie in would be an adventure, but I still think that having the reef in the sail would be good insurance.

I think that if you want to have a storm trysail, that is great IF you have a separate track for it, and it's ready to go. I think that trying to remove all of the main's slugs, then hoist a trysail in the main's track is just too much work do do in lousy conditions. And I think that taking the main completely off would be virtually impossible, particularly if the main has full battens like mine.

I do not see this as a hurricane rig. I have been in 30-35 knots of wind with just the staysail up. I remember thinking that the boat would probably be happier with a deeply reefed main, and a reef in the staysail. More balance, no lee helm, lower center of effort.

I am looking to have something to go to in 30-40 knots. There is very little chance I would find myself in higher winds than that, with the type of sailing we do. I see my plan as just a (relatively) inexpensive insurance policy, something to have in my pocket.

Comments?

Dean

[Klem]

My personal preference for cruising is to have 2 reefs that are deeper than typical so that the 2nd reef represents a 50% reduction in sail area. When cruising, you don't need to fine tune the amount of sail anymore than that (racing is different) and generally if you are thinking about putting a reef in, it wouldn't hurt to take in a bit more sail. The real advantage of this is that you don't need as much hardware. Luckily, I have not had to use a trysail on more than 2 occasions but my preference is for one if any further reefing is required. You bring up a very good point about needing a separate track to make it practical.

Since you already have 2 reefs, if you want to reef the sail further you will be forced to add a 3rd.

One thing that works marginally well to lead reefing line through a cringle when underway is to leave a loop of light line leading through it and the reef below it. You can tie the reefing line into the light line and pull it through while sailing.

[mahalocd36]

If your sailmaker says the sail will be fine, then it doesn't really hurt anything (except your wallet) to put in the third reef, if that's what you want to do - do it.

[Joe Myerson]

Dean,

George VanDrasek put a third reef into the main of Isabelle, his CD 33, before her trip to Bermuda last summer. We used that third reef, along with a Gale Sail around the furled genny, in some of our rougher conditions.

I'm not sure that a third reef is needed if you're not planning to go offshore, but we sure were glad to have it.

--Joe

[Dean Abramson]

Thanks, Joe. I was specifically going to write and ask you that.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Masthead articles by you and George.

Dean

[Dean Abramson]

By the way, I decided to seek out even more opinions. (I always try to torture myself adequately before I spend money.)

So I posted this question on SailNet at
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-d ... -main.html
if you care to see more input on this.

I just rediscovered SailNet today, and it seems like an excellent source.

Dean

[GeorgeV]

I had a third reef put into my main sail for an offshore trip to Bermuda and believe it was money well spent.

I am not sure that I would have done this for normal coastal cruising or day sailing, but if your going to be more than 30 miles off shore it is a good idea.

We experienced winds in the mid to upper 30's for 2 straight days (beating to weather) and the boat handled very well and we had a very comfortable ride. As Joe mentioned earlier with the Gale Sail and a triple reef in the main the boat was never overpowered and was very manageable. I don't believe the sail cloth was ever over stressed and my sail held up very well.

If your going to do this you need to add a proper third turning block and proper reefing lines for all your reef points. Trying to "jerry" rig something really defeats the idea of making an easily reefable sail and when you need the reef you don't want to be messing around with a "jerry" rig.

Reefing a boat should be easy and if you should be able to do it easily by yourself in winds up to 50 knots. If you can't then I suggest practice, practice and more practice.

Fair Winds

[Dean Abramson]

Good point, George. I think I will rig it with a stout cheek block, but then once it is down to the boom, tie it to the boom and then slightly ease the reefing line.

Dean

[GeorgeV]

Dean,

I would not recommending loosing the reefing line once you have the sail reefed, as that is exactly what you do not want to do. Tying the sail to the boom is more an effort to contain the sail cloth so as to reduce windage and to give big waves less of a "target" to drag you down.

You want your sail as flat as possible the winder it gets. A baggy sail is not only slow it does not develop much lift and therefore you won't point very well.

Regards

[Dean Abramson]

George,

When I said slightly, I meant ever so slightly, just enough to transfer some of the strain from the cheek block to the boom-to-clew tie-down rope.

My tie-down rope would be in addition to, not in lieu of, the regular reefing line. (The excess sailcloth would be tied up with the small lines that hang thru the grommets (between the new clew and the new tack), and would be tied around the sail above the boom.)

The idea being, give the cheek block less stress. The regular reefing line would still pull aft to help flatten the sail. But once in place, tie the clew to the boom for insurance, in case that cheek block decides it has had enough.

In any event, my guy at the sailmakers recommends doing this.

Thanks for the input. Your article about returning from Bermuda was excellent. I envy you the experience.

Dean

[2tocruise]

We have made it habit to always make the last step of reefing the main to be adding a sail tie through the clew and around the boom a couple times. We do this to a) ease some of the load off the reef line and b) be there in case the reef line or reef block (or the cleat on the boom) decides to break.

I see it as cheap insurance for the main. I've heard of cases where the reef line went loose and the main tearing straight down the row of reef points. The individual reef points aren't designed to support the load of the sail, and will fail like dominoes if a tear starts at the clew.

Granted, this is a carry over from sailing much bigger (50-60') race boats, but I figure it couldn't hurt. It's not like I don't have sail ties around.

[Dean Abramson]

The mainsail went to Hallett today for its third reef.

Thanks, all.

Dean

[Joe Myerson]

Dean,

Since you're planning to head into and across the Bay of Fundy, I think it makes good sense to put in that third reef.

FWIW, when I asked my sailmaker about a third reef for my 25D, he suggested that I probably would not be out in conditions to require it--although he said the sail would certainly handle it. (Of course, he made it in the first place.)

Maybe next year.

--Joe

[Bill Goldsmith]

My main has two reefs, but I don't use the first reef any more. By the time the word "reef" crosses my mind as the wind builds, the first reef is insufficient. I always go directly to the second reef. If I were planning a voyage soon, I would do the same and have a third reef sewn into the main. Then I would only rig reefs 2 and 3. A little more hardware to add to the boom, but no additional tangle of reefing clew lines.

If I ever get a new main, I would have three, but the first reef would be deeper, and I would have to give some thought to the %ages for numbers 2 and 3.

[Dean Abramson]

That's the thing, Bill. My two reefs together only added up to about a 30% reduction.

The new reef will get that down to about 50%.

Looking back, I should have originally asked folks about the percentages, as all reefs are not created equal. It's like when you ask the waitress how big the large pizza is, and she says "eight slices."