Replacement Lifelines

[Jim Cornwell]

There must be something seriously wrong with my priorities on Thanksgiving day, but the Turkey is in the oven and preparation dishes all washed and here I am thinking about upgrades for Yankee. High on the list is replacement of old (possibly original) lifelines, the sort with white vinyl-coated wire bearing ominous rust stains at almost every fitting. Any advice on sources? Anybody had success with DIY lifelines? Any wisdom on the various types of tensioners? I'm partial to uncoated wire and leaning toward open turnbuckles but I'm always interested to learn what members of the CD Board have to say on such subjects. Bring it on, please! Jim.

[John Ring]

A couple winters ago I boxed up my original vinyl covered life lines and sent them to Rigging Only, requesting a quote for uncoated wire and pelican hooks. They got back to me pretty quick with a good price and I had them go ahead with the work. The new life lines are a perfect fit and look really nice. I'm very happy with them.

EDIT: Actually it was Rigging Only. I corrected my post; sorry for any inconvenience.

John
CD28 #241 Tantalus

[Michael Abramson]

I had a single lifeline made by a local rigger for my 30' boat, and I think paid about $90. Shortly after that, I saw an ad for lifeline kits with DIY compression fittings instead of swaging (requiring specialized tools) and was surprised the kit to do both sides of my boat would have only been about $30 more than I paid for one. And the hardware looked nicer, and of more modern technology. I know Suncor now make them, and there may be other companies supplying them. I see West Marine has a 15% discount off most products today, so there may be a Black Friday deal to be had.

Michael

[moctrams]

Try this web site
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/Rigging_QuickAttach.cfm

[bottomscraper]

I'm partial to uncoated wire and leaning toward open turnbuckles

Both good choices. We sent ours to Rigging Only to make
replacements. We used bare 1x19 wire, bronze open body turnbuckles
and upgraded pelican hooks. On Mahalo the holes for the
upper lifelines on the stanchions were large enough to use
larger wire (1/4"). This would not have been possible at the
gates with mechanical fittings like "Quick Attach" because
the diameter of the fitting is larger than the hole in the stanchion.
It's been a few years and we are still very happy with our choices.

I like mechanical fittings, that's what we have on our standing
rigging, but they wouldn't work out well in our application. Maybe
with a different gate configuration they would be a better choice.

http://www.riggingonly.com/lifelines.htm

They have an online store at http://www.riggingandhardware.com/default.aspx

[Joe Myerson]

I replaced my old lifelines two years ago.

Rigging Only made the new lifelines. Their turnaround was fast, their price was reasonable, and Dan was very helpful when it turned out that I mis-measured one of the lines.

What I should have done was send them my old lines for replacement. So, I've got an extra shackle on one side, which is not very noticeable, but which is a constant reminder of my own incompetence ("measure twice," I tell myself every time I see it).

Also, if I had it to do over again, I probably would have opted for bare wire lifelines. But the coated ones will probably outlast me.

--Joe

[drysuit2]

I switched back to regular old line for my lifelines two years ago. Nice and simple, with no hardware to deal with. Although my boat is only 26 feet; so I never had the need for pelican hooks in the first place. I'm not sure if this is a plausible alternative for larger boats.
I change them when I change my Jack Lines [once a season]. I find they are cheaper, easier to inspect and re-tighten as needed. I use plain old Sta-Set, as it is cheap, strong, and durable. The little stretch, or creep vs. wire is minimal. I do however recommend soaking the line in water for an hour before you install them. It helps to pre-stretch the line. I use a simple loop in the line about a foot from the stern attachment. It allows a 4 to 1 purchase when I tension the line.

Might be an option looking into...

[Jeff and Sarah]

I replaced all of my lifelines with spliced Amsteel Blue. You can get all the hardware online (the name of the company escapes me right now) but turnbuckles, eyes, pelican hooks, etc are all available. I like them a lot and they look pretty sharp. It was easy to do and Amsteel Blue is rated stronger than steel wire. They are not quite as UV resistant obviously, and that is their major downfall. I used grey line and even though it's pretty high tech it actually looks pretty classic to have real line for life lines. If anyone were to go this route, be sure your stanchions have flared fittings to prevent chaffing. I'd suggest that if you replace lifelines with any material you should have the flared fittings installed first. My 33 didn't have flares- and it still doesn't but I hope to add them soon. Why CD didn't do this out of the factory baffles me.

[Steve Laume]

I know I should also replace my original life lines. Procrastination has been the major force at work but also other factors. I replaced my standing rigging last year, which seemed more important.

I consider caution to be the first order of safety, jack lines and harnesses, second. I view the life lines as a last resort and their need as testimony to the fact that you already screwed up. They do give you a warm fuzzy feeling but I don't have much faith in them, even if new. If I hit my old lines hard enough to break through that might be the least of my worries.

I have definitely looked at the Amsteel lines but did not know about being able to add flairs to my existing stanchions. I could never understand how chafe would not be a problem as is. The Amsteel seems like a great way to go but I believe ,Johnson, who supplies hardware for these set ups recomends changing the line every three years. This just doesn't seem very economical. It may also be over cautious but is a guide to what the life expectancy of this line should be. Has anyone heard different numbers? If the line should be changed every 3 to 5 years it makes SS look much more economical.

It's a long winter so we have some time to consider all of this, Steve.

[Forrest]

I replaced mine recently - left the wire uncovered. Only thing I did different was to put hooks on both sides of the boat.

Works great !

Forrest

http://vigilence.blogspot.com/2010/06/l ... oject.html

[Steve Laume]

Has anyone had any experience with hand crimping? I talked to Mr Johnson at the Defender sale and he seemed to indicate that there was nothing wrong with them.

It would be great if the CDSOA could purchase one of those awesome hand crimpers and we could mail it all over creation so everyone could do their own life lines. A deposit and time limit might be a good idea. There would also be a need for a "Crimper keeper" when it was not in use. It would seem fairly simple to add a sign up sheet to the message board as a sticky. When demand was high at this time of year it could be shipped directly from one user to another.

Benefits of membership? Steve.

[Russell]

Has anyone had any experience with hand crimping? I talked to Mr Johnson at the Defender sale and he seemed to indicate that there was nothing wrong with them.

It would be great if the CDSOA could purchase one of those awesome hand crimpers and we could mail it all over creation so everyone could do their own life lines. A deposit and time limit might be a good idea. There would also be a need for a "Crimper keeper" when it was not in use. It would seem fairly simple to add a sign up sheet to the message board as a sticky. When demand was high at this time of year it could be shipped directly from one user to another.

Benefits of membership? Steve.

I for one would absolutely not trust my lifelines to one of those inexpensive DIY swagers, and certainly not my standing rigging either. If you want to DIY, go norseman, sta-lock and such (though it is often more expensive then using a professional with a PROPER swager to do the job. Those swagers they sell at marine stores have no buisness being sold IMO.

I assume you are talking about one of these: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=10243

[Steve Laume]

Russell, that is the low budget job. The good ones have honkin big handles like a big bolt cutter. It is still the same concept. They recommend four crimps and there are special had crimp fittings that you are supposed to use. I was skeptical as well but the Johnson guy said they were perfectly adequate.

I have tried to imagine my standing rigging done with them and it just doesn't seem right. The thing about life lines is how hard to you want to be able to hit them before something gives? Machine crimped would probably give more peace of mind but in reality I doubt you need that much strength.

A study of hand vs machine crimps would be very interesting. Maine Sail?

Hand crimped life lines do seem to be another acceptable possibility, Steve.

[Jim Evans]

Two summers ago, I replaced my lifelines using Johnson hardware and coated wire from Bacon Associates in Annapolis. They loaned me the crimper (the big one that looks like a bolt cutter). And all went smoothly. I put in forward gates, which I highly recommend - it makes launching or retrieving an inflatable a lot easier off the bow. They were very helpful, too.

[Russell]

Russell, that is the low budget job. The good ones have honkin big handles like a big bolt cutter. It is still the same concept. They recommend four crimps and there are special had crimp fittings that you are supposed to use. I was skeptical as well but the Johnson guy said they were perfectly adequate.

I have tried to imagine my standing rigging done with them and it just doesn't seem right. The thing about life lines is how hard to you want to be able to hit them before something gives? Machine crimped would probably give more peace of mind but in reality I doubt you need that much strength.

A study of hand vs machine crimps would be very interesting. Maine Sail?

Hand crimped life lines do seem to be another acceptable possibility, Steve.

Okay, those big ones that look like bolt cutters are certainly a step above. But still, compared to big honking rotery swager or a hydrolic swager? Take a look at the swagers professional riggers use and compare.

While I do agree in theory, the loads a lifeline can possibly take are really not that huge, especially compared to standing rigging. But its more about confidence in the swage and knowing its solid and without flaws, then it is about what a hand crimper can do. I look at my machined swages, solid crimps several inches long, when the #*&$ hits the fan, I feel a lot better about them then I would a series of hand swages.

Its the same reasoning I used when buying a liferaft. One can buy a low end liferaft for a fraction of the cost of a high end one. But how much is my life worth to me? Its worth every cent I have. So I will pay extra for a custom made to order liferaft, packed with my specified items, inflatible boarding platform, extra nonstandard canopy support, etc... Safety items are no place to skimp IMO.

But of course the kind of sailing one does can certainly dictate what one finds acceptable. I tend to always think in the mode of long distance offshore sailing and what I find acceptable there. If my boat was in a lake, or never intended to go furthur then the bahamas, I likely would have a very different and more cost effective view on safety equipment.

That said though, no matter where I might sail or on what, I cannot think of any case where I would want to skimp on my lifelines. We can be honest about the fact that more then anything, lifelines are peace of mind. They are too low with too large of spaces between to offer any garuntees. But sail a boat without lifelines, its scary as hell going forward. If its all about peace of mind, is ones mind not even more at ease knowing those swages are absolutely as strong as can be?

But then, maybe I am too anal. My standing rigging and lifelines are both 6 years old now. They will all be replaced within 2 years. No, there are no cracks or signs of problems. But, if you are replacing such crucial gear when signs of problems show up to the naked eye, you are replacing them too late.