Re: Cape Dorys don't have to be white

[Duncan]

I know there are some threads on this, but I didn't want to dredge up an old one.

This is a Ty Cuddy Daysailer that was restored and Awlgripped by Finger Lakes Sailing Services



I think this is a beautiful color, especially how it fits so nicely with the wood trim. I wrote to ask them what color it is.

I'm betting it's "Red Mahogany".

Update: He tells me it's called "Downeast Red". I don't see that one on the samples at the Awlgrip site, but there's another example here.

[Joe Myerson]

Duncan,

What a beautiful color

--Joe

[sloopjohnl]

no shame in sailing that!

[Emil Maurer]

Nathaniel Herreshoff once quipped ,

"There were only two colors to paint a boat, black or white,
and he wouldn't paint one black."

[joelcunningham]

Well, with all due respect to Herreshoff, I'm considering black for my CD 25.

[Russell]

I am a firm believer in white only for boats, but that said, I mean it only for my own boats. I have seen some stunning colored paint jobs on boats, incluing unusual colors. I would love to have a boat so stunning, but i wouldnt want to maintain it long term. The downside to anything but white is the long term issues.

Scratch a white hull? You wont even see it 10 feet away, any other color? you see it from a mile away. An old dulled white finish? Not so bad, a washed out dark blue (or red or green) finish, not so great.

Another downside to colored hulls is it does take far more expertise in the pre process. I would say about half the colored hulls I see done you can see huge flat spots and faring issues in the finish. I have seen glass print through on hulls (this is more an origonal manufacture issue, and never seen it on a CD), been able to see where bulkheads are attached just looking at the hull, etc.. White does not expose these prep issues as glaringly.

The unfortunate thing is that a colored finish takes far more maintence then a white one does. But if you are going to fix every scratch when it heppens, do compound/wax every year, etc... go for it, its gorgous, if not, stick to white, it stands up to neglect far better.

White for me, but great looking boat there!

[tartansailor]

In deciding on which color to choose for my boat, the Pro boat painter pointed out that the darker the finish, the more the irregularities become more obvious. Anything other than some form of white should be faired, according to him. The cost of fairing made my knees weak.

Looking carefully along the white hulls of some really high end sail boats was a revelation. ALL! of them had areas lacking smooth conformity, but you would never notice that with just a cursory look see.

BTW I prefer Imron, because it can be buffed.
Not so with Awlgrip.

Dick

[Frank Vernet]

I am in the white hull camp simply for the relative ease of maintenance. That said I cannot deny that the Ty Cuddy Daysailer in "Downeast Red" is stunning - a real head-turner and that is one of the joys of owning a CD with her brightwork all done up.

Kudos to the owner for having the vision and choosing a beautiful color.

[Joe CD MS 300]

I think traditional boats like CD's really stand out with dark hulls whether its black, green, burgundy or navy. seeing all the dark hulled Hinckleys that fill much of Southwest Harbor ME really sold me on dark hulls, hassels or not.

[joelcunningham]

Every negative pointed out here about dark colors is true. White hides plenty. White cars are the same way. However, how many of you own white cars? Hmmm, I thought so. Automotive finishes hold up for years and still shine. So I think the answer is, do or pay for a top quality paint job to begin. Two part urethanes can take a bump or two without the color coming off. You wouldn't use a cheap brush and a cheap enamel to paint your BMW, would you?

[Brandon]

BTW I prefer Imron, because it can be buffed.
Not so with Awlgrip.

Dick

I believe what you mean to say is that you prefer Acrylic Urethanes over Polyester Urethanes. The Awlgrip company also makes an Acrylic Urethane that they call Awlcraft.

The difference between the two, without getting long and boring boils down to this:

Polyester Urethane molecules are much smaller than Acrylic molecules. So when they cure the Polyester Urethane forms a tighter matrix which gives a harder, more abrasion resistant film, with better chemical resistance than the Acrylic.

Acrylics are more forgiving in application, trap less dust and are buffable. When an acrylic urethane is buffed, due to the lower cross-link density the melting point of the resin is much lower i.e. it is softer. When buffing is carried out the resin rich layer "melts" and reflows into the scratch. It is possible to retain an in-tact resin-rich layer at the surface protecting the pigments and not losing significant thickness. The edges of touch ups can be blended carefully in the same way. Long term performance is not affected as much of the resin layer remains.

With the Polyester Urethane, the paint is a very hard rigid film, and to get rid of a scratch you need to cut deeply into the paint, leading to the exposure of the pigments. This looks shiny to begin with but the long term performance of the finish is now compromised.

I am currently following the build of a 95 footer in Viareggio, Italy. We are using Awlcraft (Snow white), and almost finished painting her. I am happy to use the Acrylic because we have found fairing issues on the hull, even with the white paint, and with the Acrylic we can re-fair this 6 square foot area, reshoot the area and blend in. We don't have to repaint the entire 95 foot hullside as we would with the Polyester!

Ok... so maybe I got long and boring.

[SPIBob]

Another consideration is how the color affects inside-the-hull temperature. Dark colors absorb more radiant energy and will produce higher inside temps compared to light colors. This can work for or against you depending on latitude and amount of sunlight hitting your boat.

[Russell]

Another consideration is how the color affects inside-the-hull temperature. Dark colors absorb more radiant energy and will produce higher inside temps compared to light colors. This can work for or against you depending on latitude and amount of sunlight hitting your boat.

I have heard this said often, and it makes sense, especially when you consider the experience one has with dark cars on hot days. But in reality, I have spent a lot of time in dark hulled boats in tropical climates, as well as a lot of time in my own white hulled boat in tropical climates. I do not think the difference is huge. I used to be in the camp that felt this was a reason to avoid dark hulls, but I no longer am. I think the difference is negligible and any evidence otherwise purely anecdotal (not that my evidence is more then anecdotal, but I likely have more time spent comparing in tropical climates then most).

[tartansailor]

BTW I prefer Imron, because it can be buffed.
Not so with Awlgrip.

Dick

I believe what you mean to say is that you prefer Acrylic Urethanes over Polyester Urethanes. The Awlgrip company also makes an Acrylic Urethane that they call Awlcraft.

The difference between the two, without getting long and boring boils down to this:

Polyester Urethane molecules are much smaller than Acrylic molecules. So when they cure the Polyester Urethane forms a tighter matrix which gives a harder, more abrasion resistant film, with better chemical resistance than the Acrylic.

Acrylics are more forgiving in application, trap less dust and are buffable. When an acrylic urethane is buffed, due to the lower cross-link density the melting point of the resin is much lower i.e. it is softer. When buffing is carried out the resin rich layer "melts" and reflows into the scratch. It is possible to retain an in-tact resin-rich layer at the surface protecting the pigments and not losing significant thickness. The edges of touch ups can be blended carefully in the same way. Long term performance is not affected as much of the resin layer remains.

With the Polyester Urethane, the paint is a very hard rigid film, and to get rid of a scratch you need to cut deeply into the paint, leading to the exposure of the pigments. This looks shiny to begin with but the long term performance of the finish is now compromised.

I am currently following the build of a 95 footer in Viareggio, Italy. We are using Awlcraft (Snow white), and almost finished painting her. I am happy to use the Acrylic because we have found fairing issues on the hull, even with the white paint, and with the Acrylic we can re-fair this 6 square foot area, reshoot the area and blend in. We don't have to repaint the entire 95 foot hullside as we would with the Polyester!

Ok... so maybe I got long and boring.

Hello Brandon,
Great post! very refreshing. Did not know that Awlgrip made an "Awlcraft".

If I may humbly add a foot note to your fine post I would like to point out that we are looking at a substitution nuclearphilic first order reaction rate of the reactive species; and yes, those tiny little resonating like crazy carbonium ions are planar.

Dick

[Oswego John]

I tend to agree. (sea foam green)

O J