I should have taken down the stick, but I got a good deal on hauling early this year and did not have time for my yard to take it down. I am storing at a different yard.
Don't say shrink wrap because the yard must do it and the cost comes close to the storage fee. Besides I don't like the waste of plastic (yeah, but do they really recycle it?)
I could really use a tip or two covering the boat with tarp(s) this season. I can't be the only one storing their boat with the mast up this winter.
Seasons past I usually build a frame with the mast down on cross bars serving as a ridge.
Any ideas?
Storage with Mast Up - How to cover around shrouds?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ray Garcia
- Posts: 258
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- Location: 1981 CD27 #212 "Spirit" Huntington, NY
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Carl Thunberg
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:20
- Location: CD28 Cruiser "Loon" Poorhouse Cove, ME
PITA
Since this one's hung there for four days without a response, I'll give it a shot. It's a PITA, but it can be done. I'm hoping Charlie Brenton will chime in here, because I was always very impressed with how he did this. We were in the same boat yard for several years. He clearly spent a lot of time and care erecting his winter cover. I never saw one of his tarps shred in the wind because all loose edges were duct taped.
This is how I handled this problem. You'll need three tarps to do the job. One aft of the mast, one forward of the mast, and one to span the gap in the area of the shrouds. First, I put a two-foot wide piece of plywood in the gap, running from the deck to the ridge pole, to support the tarp in the gap. You'll cut the tarp into triangles. One triangle goes outside the shrouds and one goes inside the shrouds. Fit it as best you can and tape the inner tarp to the outer tarp at each shroud. Take your time with this. The secret to getting your tarp to last all winter long is to religiously tape all exposed edges so there's no windage.
Later Edit: If you go this route, you really should do the gap first, and then have the aft and fore tarps overlap the gap. I should say, that I always did the gap last because I never seemed to have enough time to do the job in one trip, and I always had to come back another day to deal with the shrouds.
This is how I handled this problem. You'll need three tarps to do the job. One aft of the mast, one forward of the mast, and one to span the gap in the area of the shrouds. First, I put a two-foot wide piece of plywood in the gap, running from the deck to the ridge pole, to support the tarp in the gap. You'll cut the tarp into triangles. One triangle goes outside the shrouds and one goes inside the shrouds. Fit it as best you can and tape the inner tarp to the outer tarp at each shroud. Take your time with this. The secret to getting your tarp to last all winter long is to religiously tape all exposed edges so there's no windage.
Later Edit: If you go this route, you really should do the gap first, and then have the aft and fore tarps overlap the gap. I should say, that I always did the gap last because I never seemed to have enough time to do the job in one trip, and I always had to come back another day to deal with the shrouds.
Last edited by Carl Thunberg on Oct 12th, '10, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
CDSOA Commodore - Member No. 725
"The more I expand the island of my knowledge, the more I expand the shoreline of my wonder"
Sir Isaac Newton
"The more I expand the island of my knowledge, the more I expand the shoreline of my wonder"
Sir Isaac Newton
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The Patriot
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mar 14th, '05, 09:14
Storage with Mast Stepped: It's NOT Simple
We store on the hard with the mast stepped. If I get time I will post details on the KD blog, but meanwhile here's last winter's version:Ray Garcia wrote: ... I could really use a tip covering the boat with tarp(s) ... Any ideas?
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare/jpg ... r_2009.jpg
You said don't talk shrink wrap but I might add that shrink film seems to last much longer than blue tarp material. Why go through the trouble of fitting a blue tarp around mast and shrouds and then have it last one season?
Just returned from covering the boat for the third season from a shrink wrap job I did two years ago. You may try using the film instead of a tarp, having the yard's boys shrink it if they will, then cut off carefully and reuse for the next several years. (I changed yards largely because the place I hauled out wouldn't let me shrink my own, even though the quality of our work far exceeded the yard's sub contractors.) You then have a custom tarp that is UV resistant, tough and easily fitted. Only cons are that you need to set up everything the same way you did the year before, you have to think about how you cut the wrap off in the spring and then the dry weather for taping it together. Two of us covered the boat with this process in less than half a day.
Here is a shot of our boat last year this time after re using the shrink film for the first time. Good Old Boat has a story of mine on this topic coming out in the spring. It is somewhat loser than a tight shrink fit but it worked well through a snowy winter on Lake Superior.
Anyway you do it with whatever material you choose, I find that removing my aft lowers and making fast to the cap shrouds makes for a simpler cut out for the cover (We need to do that anyway for the crane). I then have one joint in the cover with an aft piece and a forward piece joining just aft the mast taped inside and out with cross pieces of tape several feet long for added strength. The shrouds are dealt with by making one fore and aft slice in the forward section of the cover and taping it tightly and entirely closed. The aft cover section then has a fairly straight athwartships seam all the way from topsides over the ridgepole of the cover aft the mast to topsides on the other beam. You can concentrate on making this joint as sound as possible. I have not used the plywood method mentioned earlier but with the strength of the shrink film have not found it necessary.
Hope this helps,
Just returned from covering the boat for the third season from a shrink wrap job I did two years ago. You may try using the film instead of a tarp, having the yard's boys shrink it if they will, then cut off carefully and reuse for the next several years. (I changed yards largely because the place I hauled out wouldn't let me shrink my own, even though the quality of our work far exceeded the yard's sub contractors.) You then have a custom tarp that is UV resistant, tough and easily fitted. Only cons are that you need to set up everything the same way you did the year before, you have to think about how you cut the wrap off in the spring and then the dry weather for taping it together. Two of us covered the boat with this process in less than half a day.
Here is a shot of our boat last year this time after re using the shrink film for the first time. Good Old Boat has a story of mine on this topic coming out in the spring. It is somewhat loser than a tight shrink fit but it worked well through a snowy winter on Lake Superior.
Anyway you do it with whatever material you choose, I find that removing my aft lowers and making fast to the cap shrouds makes for a simpler cut out for the cover (We need to do that anyway for the crane). I then have one joint in the cover with an aft piece and a forward piece joining just aft the mast taped inside and out with cross pieces of tape several feet long for added strength. The shrouds are dealt with by making one fore and aft slice in the forward section of the cover and taping it tightly and entirely closed. The aft cover section then has a fairly straight athwartships seam all the way from topsides over the ridgepole of the cover aft the mast to topsides on the other beam. You can concentrate on making this joint as sound as possible. I have not used the plywood method mentioned earlier but with the strength of the shrink film have not found it necessary.
Hope this helps,
Paul
CDSOA Member
CDSOA Member
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John Danicic
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:30
- Location: CD 36 - Mariah - #124 Lake Superior
- Contact:
I don't often agree with my brother but I do on his reusing shrink wrap season after season.
He has figured out a system of recutting and then reusing shrink wrap that would make a Scotchman proud. I am sure if he wants, he could keep doing it for a few more years. I intend to try his method next year. Yeah, it looks baggy compared to fresh stuff but it does work and it is still strong stuff. By Spring, my freshly applied shrink looks baggy as well.
Left - Femme du Nord sporting a Frankenstien look with blue tape in this her 3rd year of reusing her shrink wrap. Right- Mariah with freshly applied wrap.
[quote="Ray Garcia"]
Don't say shrink wrap because the yard must do it and the cost comes close to the storage fee. Besides I don't like the waste of plastic (yeah, but do they really recycle it?) [quote]
Come on Ray, where is your faith in American Industry?
The shrink wrap is recyclable but you have to be pro-active about it. DR. Shrink sells a bag that UPS picks up from the yard and delivers to a plastic recycling center where they melt it down to make plastic deck material. Our yard owner loves it cause his dumpsters are not filled with shrink wrap in the spring. The recycler loves it because this is a large amount of a single type of plastic that does not need to be sorted.
The funny thing is, all those guys who use the blue tarps need to THROW IT AWAY in a year or two. There is no recycling available for that stuff. When Paul is done with his for what ever reason, it can be recycled.
I am sure the manufactures of shrink wrap would not recommend it, but carefully removed, stored and reapplied shrink wrap is an excellent, affordable and responsible way to protect your boat for this winter and many more to come.
Sail on
John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah- #124
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655
He has figured out a system of recutting and then reusing shrink wrap that would make a Scotchman proud. I am sure if he wants, he could keep doing it for a few more years. I intend to try his method next year. Yeah, it looks baggy compared to fresh stuff but it does work and it is still strong stuff. By Spring, my freshly applied shrink looks baggy as well.
Left - Femme du Nord sporting a Frankenstien look with blue tape in this her 3rd year of reusing her shrink wrap. Right- Mariah with freshly applied wrap. [quote="Ray Garcia"]
Don't say shrink wrap because the yard must do it and the cost comes close to the storage fee. Besides I don't like the waste of plastic (yeah, but do they really recycle it?) [quote]
Come on Ray, where is your faith in American Industry?
The shrink wrap is recyclable but you have to be pro-active about it. DR. Shrink sells a bag that UPS picks up from the yard and delivers to a plastic recycling center where they melt it down to make plastic deck material. Our yard owner loves it cause his dumpsters are not filled with shrink wrap in the spring. The recycler loves it because this is a large amount of a single type of plastic that does not need to be sorted.
The funny thing is, all those guys who use the blue tarps need to THROW IT AWAY in a year or two. There is no recycling available for that stuff. When Paul is done with his for what ever reason, it can be recycled.
I am sure the manufactures of shrink wrap would not recommend it, but carefully removed, stored and reapplied shrink wrap is an excellent, affordable and responsible way to protect your boat for this winter and many more to come.
Sail on
John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah- #124
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655
Last edited by John Danicic on Oct 12th, '10, 16:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
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- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
Lousy, rainy Tuesday with the possibility of a "wind event" later this week. 
We are fortunate in South Florida to not have to go through what our northern brothers and sisters do every Fall. Thus, I have zero knowledge on the subject.
I did read an article somewhere (cannot now remember when or where) that I seem to recall strongly recommended unstepping the mast when being "winterized". However, it seems from this thread and others that many CDers do not unstep the mast.
I would be interested to know the pros and cons - educational purposes only. It seems like more work to unstep but then it seems like it would be more work to "winterize" around the mast, shrouds, etc.
We are fortunate in South Florida to not have to go through what our northern brothers and sisters do every Fall. Thus, I have zero knowledge on the subject.
I did read an article somewhere (cannot now remember when or where) that I seem to recall strongly recommended unstepping the mast when being "winterized". However, it seems from this thread and others that many CDers do not unstep the mast.
I would be interested to know the pros and cons - educational purposes only. It seems like more work to unstep but then it seems like it would be more work to "winterize" around the mast, shrouds, etc.
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Removing The Mast
Hi Robert,
In my part of the country, one of the reasons that people remove their masts off season is because they trailer and store their boats at home.
The initial cost of a trailer for smaller boats pays huge dividends through the years by not having to pay boatyard storage fees.
Even some owners of larger boats opt to have a professional boat transporter move their boat to their home. Many owners do their own work and like to have easy access to their boat when they have an opportunity to put additional points in the black box.
Obviously, when trailering a sailboat on public streets , the mast is unstepped to avoid overhead wiring and traffic lights, etc. If the boat will spend the winter in close proximity to the body of water in which she is moored, it usually isn't necessary to lower the mast and associated rigging.
I guess that for some owners it is a necessity and for others, it is a matter of choice and others $$$.
Sometimes I am envious of you southern sailors. Note: I said sometimes.
Enjoy your boat,
O J
In my part of the country, one of the reasons that people remove their masts off season is because they trailer and store their boats at home.
The initial cost of a trailer for smaller boats pays huge dividends through the years by not having to pay boatyard storage fees.
Even some owners of larger boats opt to have a professional boat transporter move their boat to their home. Many owners do their own work and like to have easy access to their boat when they have an opportunity to put additional points in the black box.
Obviously, when trailering a sailboat on public streets , the mast is unstepped to avoid overhead wiring and traffic lights, etc. If the boat will spend the winter in close proximity to the body of water in which she is moored, it usually isn't necessary to lower the mast and associated rigging.
I guess that for some owners it is a necessity and for others, it is a matter of choice and others $$$.
Sometimes I am envious of you southern sailors. Note: I said sometimes.
Enjoy your boat,
O J
Last edited by Oswego John on Oct 12th, '10, 16:07, edited 1 time in total.
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
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JWSutcliffe
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Jul 29th, '08, 22:41
- Location: CD 31 Oryx, hull #55, based in Branford CT
Sea Hunt:
For me its not the work, but the cost. To have the yard unstep my mast, store it for the winter and then restep in the spring I would be looking at about $1000. Thats on top of $1750 for hauling, winter storage and spring launching - and about $5400 for next summer's slip.
For $1000 saved I can spend a little extra time fitting my tarps around the stays. Yes, I know, a little more wear and tear on the mast, but.....
For me its not the work, but the cost. To have the yard unstep my mast, store it for the winter and then restep in the spring I would be looking at about $1000. Thats on top of $1750 for hauling, winter storage and spring launching - and about $5400 for next summer's slip.
For $1000 saved I can spend a little extra time fitting my tarps around the stays. Yes, I know, a little more wear and tear on the mast, but.....
Skip Sutcliffe
CD31 Oryx
CD31 Oryx
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John Danicic
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:30
- Location: CD 36 - Mariah - #124 Lake Superior
- Contact:
wrapping tarp
Ah but we don't have hurricanes!Sea Hunt wrote:Lousy, rainy Tuesday with the possibility of a "wind event" later this week.
We are fortunate in South Florida to not have to go through what our northern brothers and sisters do every Fall. Thus, I have zero knowledge on the subject.
Right now, it is a good but also a sad feeling to get the boat put away for the winter. I leave the mast up because it costs more time in the spring to set up a complicated cutter rig like Mariah has.
But addressing Ray's original question about wrapping tarp around the shrouds.
What ever material you intend to use, cut a slit in it where the shrouds poke through and then tightly wrap and tape the shroud for a good 6 inches above and below the tarp with a small section of the same material. You don't want to make any direct contact with the sticky side of the tape to the shroud. That gives Spring launch a new Spring clean up job.
After the tarp is completely tied down and tight, tape the cuts together and then tape the tarp to the six inch protruding wrap around the shrouds. This makes a reasonable water tight fit although a small amount of water will always find a way down the threads of the wire shrouds.
It is best to use tapes that are compatible to your tarp material and UV resistant. Don't use, "Duct Tape". It won't last till Christmas.
Sail on
John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah- #124 on the hard
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655
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The Patriot
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mar 14th, '05, 09:14
Some Boat Cover Ideas
Here are a few ideas that seem to be working for us:Ray Garcia wrote: ... I could really use a tip or two covering the boat with tarp(s) this season ...
http://yachtkerrydeare.blogspot.com/201 ... s-nap.html
Nice job - what sort of tape?
I have seen frames that were more elaborate, but I like the way you have used the existing gear to simplify this.kerrydeare wrote:Here are a few ideas that seem to be working for us:
http://yachtkerrydeare.blogspot.com/201 ... s-nap.html
I am working against the clock this season, but I think I have time to get a "first cut" version of your type of cover in place. What kind of tape/reinforcement are you using, and how did you like the grommet tool you selected?
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The Patriot
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mar 14th, '05, 09:14
Re: Nice job - what sort of tape?
I used garden-variety contact cement to build up layers of blue tarp material where I thought there would be considerable stress. Following that procedure, I used 3M Heavy Duty Black Duct Tape where necessary. That material seemed to survive really well over last winter. My grommet kits were originally part of my marlinespike gear, but eventually I just purchased standard kits from Home Depot.Duncan wrote: ... What kind of tape/reinforcement are you using, and how did you like the grommet tool you selected?
My only concern is that the tarp material itself will last long enough to justify this much time, effort, and money. It shows a bit of fading after one season, but no rips, tears, or chafe.
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Joe Myerson
- Posts: 2216
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- Location: s/v Creme Brulee, CD 25D, Hull #80, Squeteague Harbor, MA
Reuse of Shrink Wrap?
John,
I'm impressed by the "Frankenstein stitches" on your reused shrink wrap. My plan is to reuse the shrink wrap for next year, if I possibly can.
It cost me $275 to get the boat wrapped. That's still less than my yard was charging, but if I could get at least one more season out of it, I'd really feel much better about the expense.
What kind of blue tape did you use?
Thanks,
--Joe
I'm impressed by the "Frankenstein stitches" on your reused shrink wrap. My plan is to reuse the shrink wrap for next year, if I possibly can.
It cost me $275 to get the boat wrapped. That's still less than my yard was charging, but if I could get at least one more season out of it, I'd really feel much better about the expense.
What kind of blue tape did you use?
Thanks,
--Joe
Former Commodore, CDSOA
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
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John Danicic
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:30
- Location: CD 36 - Mariah - #124 Lake Superior
- Contact:
Not me
Joe:
That was my brothers boat not mine with the blue tape. Mine has the new shrink (on the right) though I plan on reusing it next year.
I would use and I think he will agree, "heat shrink tape" which you can get direct from Dr. Shrink.http://www.dr-shrink.com/tape
4 inch wide tape; a roll or two would give you plenty of options. The good Dr. in his how-to video says to warm newly applied tape by rubbing it vigorously. It will hold much better. An article in Good Old Boat Magazine about reusing shrink wrap written by my brother will be appearing next year before fall. It should let you know about all his cheapskate techniques to reuse shrink wrap. Instead of $275.00 it will cost you about $20.00 in tape next year. Use the $255.00 left over to get yourself a good set of foul weather gear or some other sailor thing of need.
Sail on
John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah- #124
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655
That was my brothers boat not mine with the blue tape. Mine has the new shrink (on the right) though I plan on reusing it next year.
I would use and I think he will agree, "heat shrink tape" which you can get direct from Dr. Shrink.http://www.dr-shrink.com/tape
4 inch wide tape; a roll or two would give you plenty of options. The good Dr. in his how-to video says to warm newly applied tape by rubbing it vigorously. It will hold much better. An article in Good Old Boat Magazine about reusing shrink wrap written by my brother will be appearing next year before fall. It should let you know about all his cheapskate techniques to reuse shrink wrap. Instead of $275.00 it will cost you about $20.00 in tape next year. Use the $255.00 left over to get yourself a good set of foul weather gear or some other sailor thing of need.
Sail on
John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah- #124
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655