This bulletin board, hosted by the CDSOA, Inc., is the on-line meeting place for all Cape Dory owners and groups. We welcome everyone's questions, answers and comments about Cape Dory sailboat
We have a WM distributor here in Singapore and we do patronize her alot. We dont like that, and we do that only when we have no better alternatives.
Recently, we bought 2 Whale foot pumps at a local shop at 30% off WM price. Thats saving $50!
Now we are pricing tinned 12 gauge wires. We like the Ancor brand that WM carries, and we noted that Defender prices for 100ft roll is 1/2 off WM prices. Soon we will know what the local shop wants for it.. We think it will be Defender price or less. That will be like saving $200!
Me thinks WM is great! for 1 thing, its catalog is pretty complete. Its a start for us to get a product description and model numbers, and it set the bottom line for us to go get competitive pricing!
It gives us much pleasure when we calculate how much we saved on each item that we didnt buy at WM. Its a price shopping experience that wouldnt be available if not for the "evil empire"
I've been doing a cosmetic renewal and a major refit of my CD36. I order a LOT of stuff online. Because I'm 100 miles from the coast and the nearest WM store, I order almost everything online. I'm interested in advertised price, availability and reasonable shipping charges. I would order much more from WM if their prices were more competitive. They do have the most informative catalog and OK customer service. More things to consider: Some online stores have NO customer service, and others charge "standard" shipping rates that are actually far in excess of the actual UPS charges.
Sometimes (not often) WM is actually the best source. I do enjoy visiting their stores!
Anyone have any thoughts on the ethics of using the local brick and mortar store to check out merchandise, and then sending your money to an online retailer? In a more general sense, how has this behavior impacted your local business community?
Tom and Jean Keevil
CD33 Rover
Ashland OR and Ladysmith, BC
Tom Keevil wrote:Anyone have any thoughts on the ethics of using the local brick and mortar store to check out merchandise, and then sending your money to an online retailer? In a more general sense, how has this behavior impacted your local business community?
I'd say check online for price first. Then if you have a need to touch, go to WM armed with price info. If WM is close.enough, buy from them because letting you touch isn' without cost to them and is a benefit to you.
Neil Gordon wrote: If WM is close.enough, buy from them because letting you touch isn' without cost to them and is a benefit to you.
I agree. I much prefer to give my money to the local economy even if WM is a national corp. The employees are local; they spend their salary here in South Florida. If sailors/boaters did not buy at WM, their employees (our neighbors) would be out of work.
That said, I also cannot afford to give away my small government pension. If WM (or another local marine supply store) is selling an item "on sale" for $150 plus state and local tax and Defender or another on line/mail order corp. is selling exactly the same item for $100 plus shipping, I will ALWAYS go to the local store and give them an opportunity to "come close" to the website store. I print out the online page and show it to them so they know I am not trying to trick anyone. If they come close, I buy from the local. If they don't I explain why I am buying from the website store - I cannot afford to give away my money.
Many may not agree with me but I think the above is fair and ethical to the local marine stores whether they are a national chain (ala WM) or a local "Ma and Pa" one brick and mortar building store.
Anyone have any thoughts on the ethics of using the local brick and mortar store to check out merchandise, and then sending your money to an online retailer? In a more general sense, how has this behavior impacted your local business community?
If it is truly a local store I don't even consider going in to "touchy feely" and buying over the internet. In this case if they have it and I want it, I buy it. For most boat purchases I pretty much know pretty much what I'm looking for and don't need to see it so if there is sufficient lead time I will go online. If it is a needed replacement, or urgent I generally go buy it, local if possible, National Chain if necessary. As a rule I do not go just window shopping and with the National Chain one has to be careful when receiving information and buying guidance. Make sure the advice is sound and meets your needs, not the store or salesman's. This year has been better here in the Annapolis area since they hired less high school students as summer hires.
It is also interesting to note that the National Chain has gone to selling "extended warranties". I know this is a trend across retail, but it also gets them out of servicing warranty problems, or even knowing about product problems unless you buy their warranty.
It's always smart to check online before going to a local store. If the local price is close, I buy it. If the local price is way out of line, I show them the price from the competition, including shipping. If they match or come close, I buy local. If they won't deal, I smile and explain why I'm not buying the product there. I also pleasantly tell them that I'll continue to give them a chance on future purchases. The folks at these stores need to hear these comments! I've had good luck with WM price matching.
Two days ago I needed 12 feet of white 3/4 th inch heavy duty hose. Went to our local "Marine" stores--$3.29 a foot. Went next door to a local hardware store that handles Marine supplies. Same hose, same brand, same box, $1.69 foot. Pays to shop. I also believe in supporting my local merchants and will always give them a chance and will usually pay a little more for the convenience. But there are times on the big ticket items when it pays to shop online.
Case in point--Raytheon no longer supports our RL-70 Radar display. When it failed on us in Thailand a few years ago and we discussed the matter with Raytheon Tech support they recommended that we try E-Bay. Sure enough. Got it in 5 days. Brand new in the box.
Fair winds to all,
Will and Annie
L
Tom Keevil wrote:Anyone have any thoughts on the ethics of using the local brick and mortar store to check out merchandise, and then sending your money to an online retailer? ...
I was probably out of town when it happened, but exactly when did getting the most for your hard-earned dollar become a moral issue? Prices for marine items are absurd in the first place, and I cannot imagine leaving more money on the table than absolutely necessary. If Ma and Pa Marine want my business, they can get in line with everyone else.
kerrydeare wrote:... when did getting the most for your hard-earned dollar become a moral issue? Prices for marine items are absurd in the first place, and I cannot imagine leaving more money on the table than absolutely necessary.
It's not "getting the most." Value is a function of price + performance and customer service, products you can touch and the like are part of the value proposition. It's not fair to the retailer to take the service portion of the value proposition for free and then make a buying decision based on price. The ultimate end is that there won't be brick and mortar stores that offer service unless the retailer can recover their costs.
As to the absurd prices, yes, I agree and they should be held accountable (by losing the sale). A big box marine store shouldn't have higher prices than the local hardware store for the same or comparable items.
The advice I liked (don't remember if it was mine ) was to check online prices and features first, then touch and feel at the brick and mortar store. Factor in a fair component for the cost of providing service and buy from the retailer offering the "fairest" price. Oh... and armed with competitive price information, it's always okay to negotiate.
kerrydeare wrote:... when did getting the most for your hard-earned dollar become a moral issue? Prices for marine items are absurd in the first place, and I cannot imagine leaving more money on the table than absolutely necessary.
It's not "getting the most." Value is a function of price + performance and customer service, products you can touch and the like are part of the value proposition. It's not fair to the retailer to take the service portion of the value proposition for free and then make a buying decision based on price ...
In my lexicon "getting the most" refers to value, not merely price, so semantics aside you and I are on the same page. However "it's not fair" is where we part. In the general case the marketplace determines what is "fair" and it would be an error to suggest that costs associated with "tire kickers" are not part of the overhead carried by successful retailers. West Marine did not become the behemoth it is today by overlooking these costs and they surely know that comparison shoppers are also floor traffic. I know you are not suggesting that retailers enforce a "touch it and you've bought it" policy, Neil, but calling comparison shopping "not fair" is getting close.
BTW, thanks for the sailing lessons last June. Enjoyed it.
kerrydeare wrote:... it would be an error to suggest that costs associated with "tire kickers" are not part of the overhead carried by successful retailers. West Marine did not become the behemoth it is today by overlooking these costs and they surely know that comparison shoppers are also floor traffic. I know you are not suggesting that retailers enforce a "touch it and you've bought it" policy, Neil, but calling comparison shopping "not fair" is getting close.
BTW, thanks for the sailing lessons last June. Enjoyed it.
Comparison shopping is always fair and ethical. What's not, IMO, is using resources that you know have associated costs, when you also know that you're not going to buy there.
Using your "tire kicker" analogy... I think it's okay to tour the car lot and look to your heart's content. It's not okay to consume the sales guy's time and take test drives though when you know you're not buying. So it's also okay, I suppose to walk the aisles of a marine store that's there anyway... but as you consume more resources in order to do research, you're imposing costs on the retailer and on real customers.
You're welcome for the so-called sailing lessons. The wind really did cooperate!
Ethics? What kind of ethics are they following when that little stainless steel loop on the back wall that they think is worth 11 dollars only cost them one dollar and change?
Comparison shopping is not only fine it should be used as a tool by the vendor to set their prices. As long as enough of the people who walk through the door buy enough stull to meet the monthly goals, them everything is sweet. If that changes then they will adjust the prices where more people will walk out with stuff in bags.
This not how I ran my business as I did not have the heart to take more then what I felt I deserved from my customers. My competitors did and they made a lot more money then I did.
) was to check online prices and features first, then touch and feel at the brick and mortar store. Factor in a fair component for the cost of providing service and buy from the retailer offering the "fairest" price. Oh... and armed with competitive price information, it's always okay to negotiate.