We just completed a wonderful 3 day sail from Buzzards Bay, around NYC, and up the Hudson River. We had to motor for the last hour or so and the motor ran like a champ. We pulled up to our marina fuel dock to unload and reflect on a WONDERFUL sail. When we went to restart our M-30 to move to our slip she would not turn over.....hmmmm?
So I went to work trying to diagnose the problem and get her moved off the fuel dock as quickly as possible. When I depressed the starter button (I have rewired so I do not have to depress the glow plug button and started button simultaneously) I could hear the solenoid click closed but I did not hear the starter spinning or engaging.
First - I thought it might be the started button so I jumped across the terminals without any success.
Second - I then thought it might be the solenoid so I found a very heavy gauge wire (former jumper cable) and jumped across the solenoid terminals to by-pass it. The starter spun, but that gear thingy (technical term) did not throw forward and engage the fly wheel.
Third - I knew the started brushes were not stuck since it spun so I didn't think to hit it with a hammer, but then I gave it a few bonks thinking it could not hurt if the throw gear thingy was stuck. I then pushed the starter button and she turned right over.
So I am totally confused. I know if I jumped the solenoid and it cranked over then I needed a new solenoid. If it still did not crank then I needed a new starter motor. I did not get either predictable outcome so hence my confusion.
Any thought or ideas on how to further trouble shoot? I could just call Hansen and order a new solenoid and starter to be sure but since I could not reproduce the failure I am not sure how to proceed.
One thought was that the engine compartment was warm after running the last 60 minutes to our port, but I don't know if heat can be a contributing factor to a solenoid or starter failure. She ran within the normal temperature range (160 degrees) so it was not overly hot.
Starter or Solenoid issue - looking for some advice
Moderator: bobdugan
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Chris Reinke
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Steve Laume
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It sounds like you did a great job of diagnosing the problem without a definitive result.
I had a switch problem in the past and have rewired the panel as you did. While my starter was still working properly when I had my engine out this winter, I took the opportunity to have it rebuilt. It is pretty easy to remove the starter. Once I had it out, I took it to an automotive electrical shop which I have dealt with before. For less than $100.00 they installed a new solenoid and bushings, cleaned lubed, resealed and clear coated the thing to look and work like new. Turn around time was very fast so you wouldn't miss any sailing time either.
Not having confidence in the engines ability to start is not a good thing, Steve.
I had a switch problem in the past and have rewired the panel as you did. While my starter was still working properly when I had my engine out this winter, I took the opportunity to have it rebuilt. It is pretty easy to remove the starter. Once I had it out, I took it to an automotive electrical shop which I have dealt with before. For less than $100.00 they installed a new solenoid and bushings, cleaned lubed, resealed and clear coated the thing to look and work like new. Turn around time was very fast so you wouldn't miss any sailing time either.
Not having confidence in the engines ability to start is not a good thing, Steve.
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JWSutcliffe
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- Location: CD 31 Oryx, hull #55, based in Branford CT
This sounds quite similar to the problem experienced by a number of M25s. You can find a number of strings on this forum and others regarding M25 starting problems. In the case of the M25 the problem was actually the wiring on and to the engine control panel. If the M30 shared the same panel and wiring then the problem could be the same.
With the M25 the symptoms were the same - a clicking solenoid and no starter action. The cause of this was insufficient voltage at the solenoid, causing the solenoid to make an audible click but not actuate hard enough to close the starter circuit. The The solution was to wire the glow plug and starter buttons in parallel, increase the wire size and replace 25 year old connections that were introducing a voltage drop.
It is sooooo satisfying now to hear the engine turn over every time I push the start button!
With the M25 the symptoms were the same - a clicking solenoid and no starter action. The cause of this was insufficient voltage at the solenoid, causing the solenoid to make an audible click but not actuate hard enough to close the starter circuit. The The solution was to wire the glow plug and starter buttons in parallel, increase the wire size and replace 25 year old connections that were introducing a voltage drop.
It is sooooo satisfying now to hear the engine turn over every time I push the start button!
Skip Sutcliffe
CD31 Oryx
CD31 Oryx
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Oswego John
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Starter Woes
Chris,
Skip's answer sounds about right
If you hear the starter solenoid click when you depress the starter button, the button is working and the primary wiring from the button to the solenoid is okay. Check if the coil is causing contact with the battery to the starter.
With someone depressing the starter button, test the solenoid output for constant DC power. Since you say that the starter rotates, I'd think that the wiring and components are okay.
Make sure that the starter and engine have a good ground.
From what you tell us, this sounds like a classic case of dry starter shaft and Bendix Spring.
Before spending too many boat units, remove the glow plug from being on in conjunction with the starting circuit. Then try removing the starter motor and greasing up the shaft and spring assembly, making sure that the drive gear soins effortlessly and travels in and out freely.
Good luck,
O J
Skip's answer sounds about right
If you hear the starter solenoid click when you depress the starter button, the button is working and the primary wiring from the button to the solenoid is okay. Check if the coil is causing contact with the battery to the starter.
With someone depressing the starter button, test the solenoid output for constant DC power. Since you say that the starter rotates, I'd think that the wiring and components are okay.
Make sure that the starter and engine have a good ground.
From what you tell us, this sounds like a classic case of dry starter shaft and Bendix Spring.
Before spending too many boat units, remove the glow plug from being on in conjunction with the starting circuit. Then try removing the starter motor and greasing up the shaft and spring assembly, making sure that the drive gear soins effortlessly and travels in and out freely.
Good luck,
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
Insufficient voltage
I've had the same experience on a different engine. The cause turned out to be low battery voltage (because the alternator belt wasn't tight enough).JWSutcliffe wrote:...a clicking solenoid and no starter action. The cause of this was insufficient voltage at the solenoid, causing the solenoid to make an audible click but not actuate hard enough to close the starter circuit.
So, a quick check could be to try a freshly charged battery.
I had the same problem
on the same engine. The problem was a faulty ground wire where it attached to the secondary fuel filter plate. The plate has a very fine crack in it. I had a welder join the two pieces and it ran like a new engine after that - with no hesitation.
If that connection seems OK after testing with a VOM, remove all the major negative and positive connections, clean them, cover with a bit of vaseline (anti-corrosion) and put them back together.
My guess is that the ground is faulty somewhere.
If that connection seems OK after testing with a VOM, remove all the major negative and positive connections, clean them, cover with a bit of vaseline (anti-corrosion) and put them back together.
My guess is that the ground is faulty somewhere.
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Andy Denmark
- Posts: 630
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Bendix gear
Sounds like a Bendix gear problem to me especially if th electrical connections check out. If this sticks the results are pretty much as you describe.
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Last edited by Andy Denmark on Feb 13th, '11, 03:50, edited 1 time in total.
Try the Bosch WR1 Low Voltage Relay
I also agree with Skip. I had your symptoms on my Yanmar 3GM30F; press the starter button, and all I'd get is a click. It was a very intermittent problem, making it difficult to troubleshoot - and most annoying.
Anyway, after a little research and talking with some good diesel mechanics, I decided to install a Bosch WR1 low voltage relay kit (less than $20) which is designed for older starter systems with aging wire. It boosts voltage to the starter solenoid. Since I installed the relay, I've never had a clicking starter. It's an easy install, and worth a try - nothing to lose but the $20.
Anyway, after a little research and talking with some good diesel mechanics, I decided to install a Bosch WR1 low voltage relay kit (less than $20) which is designed for older starter systems with aging wire. It boosts voltage to the starter solenoid. Since I installed the relay, I've never had a clicking starter. It's an easy install, and worth a try - nothing to lose but the $20.
Jim Evans