I'm speechless!

[tartansailor]

As for your "no foam" comment, try baking soda and vinegar in the same bucket.

That would be counter productive, as the two react with each other, thus canceling out each others effectiveness.

Some crud is more soluable in an acidic medium, while others in a basic medium, so using them separately is the correct approach.

Dick

[mgphl52]

The best solution would be rationality which is often in shorter supply than un-neutered male bovine manure, Steve.

Yes! It really is a shame that common sense is so damn rare...

[rorik]

..........I wonder what the history of the Puget Sound area is, concerning boat maintnence. It seems like there is usually an underlying problem that brings out a crazy, unreasonable, reaction. This seems to be the phase this is in. Then once the issue is brought to light a reasonable standard is adopted to deal with the problem. If everybody or nobody is happy then it is probably the right solution.

I doubt the boat owners want to pollute the sound either but they do want to clean their boats, Steve.

The issue is that there are way too many here in WA, and across the country, who think that prescriptive solutions to "problems" for other people are great, even if those ideas have little or no basis in fact. And a lot of those with prescriptive solutions don't follow those solutions themselves.
Bear in mind that I spent 3 years selling FSC certified hardwoods to cabinetmakers and furniture makers here in western WA and 2 years on the board of an environmental non-profit. Right up until all of the ideas became prescriptive rather than voluntary.
I'll wager that my carbon footprint and environmental impact are a whole lot less than 90% of the "environmentalists" who want to tell me and others how to live. I live on a 30 year old boat, drive a 23 year old truck whose spare parts have already been manufactured, I recycle, etc.
I can't wait for the day someone tells me I need to file an EIS so I can die.

[chase]

Steve, I hear ya man. Its really all about phosphorus and people easily blur the lines of science when trying to do good. Poultry manure is high in P and many producers have serious nutrient management plans and can only spread so much on their land. Hog producers are highly regulated and pumping their lagoons becomes a complex algorithm of acre feet of water storage and weather forecasts. Poorly timed applications of any nutrient end up in the water and industry, agriculture, sewerage/sseptic and pet waste is way more of a concern than a pleasure yacht getting bathed from time-to-time.

I did not read all the posts, but wonder if in fact people are actually having suits filed or fines levied. We figure in our business as it goes in CA or WA, so it goes eventually in NC.

The vinegar and baking soda works fine for cleaning the decks, I tried it last summer after sailing up to the Chesapeake. I read an article in their local sailing rag about it and the chandlery there at that marina on the Elizabeth had both baking soda and vinegar for cheap. I tried it a few different ways. It took most of the black stuff, the fish guts from our northward protein harvest plus the soap residue, salt water and all the rest of the collected grunge from cruising. We're not talking diesel soot here thougfh.

I think I'll use less soap as a result, regardless of the relatively negligible point-source pollution. Managing lots of livestock along a waterway, I'm used to thinking about my nutrient impacts, so if I have a good alternative I'll use it. I'll also use soap to wash dishes and for the boat when necessary and I'm all about the acids used sparingly. They are all neutralized with water and used in small amounts. I think moderation is the key and I'm not going to suds my boat up every month but I could care less whether you do. There are bigger fish to fry in the arena of water quality but that's no excuse for any of us to blow our own BCNB's, or Boat Care Nutrient Budgets.

[rorik]

........I did not read all the posts, but wonder if in fact people are actually having suits filed or fines levied. We figure in our business as it goes in CA or WA, so it goes eventually in NC .......

Heres a link to an editor letter from from the April issue of 48 North:

http://content.yudu.com/A1n9my/48NApr10 ... ticles.htm

And an article in the same issue:

http://content.yudu.com/A1n9my/48NApr10 ... ticles.htm

[alan cohen]

_

[alan cohen]

The analogy was not to compare chicken manure to soap. It was to compare organic fertilizer or soap to the non organic type. Sorry if that was confusing.

\My point was not to compare organic fertilizer to soap either, Steve. It was about trying to compare saturating your entire lawn with organic manure vs a few parts per billion of organic soap in the Puget Sound. Too much of anything is not good.

Dr. Bronner's is "completely biodegradable and made from only 100% organic vegetable oils. No phosphors, no sulfates etc. You can brush your teeth with it.

[M. R. Bober]

Who will be bold enough to risk taking a shower?

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster (where boat cleanliness is next to impossible w/o soap), VA

[M. R. Bober]

The analogy was not to compare chicken manure to soap. It was to compare organic fertilizer or soap to the non organic type. Sorry if that was confusing.

\My point was not to compare organic fertilizer to soap either, Steve. It was about trying to compare saturating your entire lawn with organic manure vs a few parts per billion of organic soap in the Puget Sound. Too much of anything is not good.

Dr. Bronner's is "completely biodegradable and made from only 100% organic vegetable oils. No phosphors, no sulfates etc. You can brush your teeth with it.

Interesting information, BUT I will stay will my current dentifrice.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster (where the farmers know how to spread it), VA

[Oswego John]

Mitchell,

Too-shay.

O J

PS:
Hmmm, I'm wondering if anyone remembers Ipana, the look of beauty and the smile of health. . I think they sponsored Bob Hope's radio show.

Bob Hope? Who's he?

Anyone remember Major Bowes or Fibber McGee and Molly?

Anyone remember AM radio?

Anyon.....aw forget it.

Sheesh.

[Al Levesque]

Yes, and Jack Armstrong just about supper time. The Lone Ranger too on the weekend. And who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, The Shadow knows. And what was that one that started with the door creaking? We sometimes got stuck out in the harbor with no wind and had to miss some of these.

[Oswego John]

It's funny (no it's not) how I can remember things from sixty or seventy years ago and I can't remember my cell phone number.

Was the creaky door from Inner Sanctum?

One of the funniest ones was Amos and Andy, their fresh air taxi, Calhoun the rapid-fire talking lawyer, Kingfish, Lightning and assorted other almost unbelievable characters.

Did you hear why The Lone Ranger fired his trusty sidekick, Tonto? Someone told The Lone Ranger what "Get um up, Kimosabe" meant in English.

If anyone wonders who Major Bowes was, (probably no one) he started the Original Amateur Hour. The next generation continued on. Ted Mack married his daughter.

I'll be dipped if I know how these bits of spellbinding but useless data refer to Cape Dories.

I'll check it out on my secret, Li'l Orphan Annie secret decoder that I got with two Ovaltine labels and $.03 postage.

O J

[Carter Brey]

Brusha, brusha, bru-sha
With Ipana toothpaste...

(Emily Dickinson, never fear, your place is secure).

And then...

Who's that little chatterbox,
The one with curly golden locks?
Who could it be?
It's Little Orphan Annie!

[Sea Hunt]

My two favorites:

The Arthur Godfrey Radio Show and The Thin Man Mysteries.

OJ, don't feel bad. Sometimes I don't even remember that I have a cell phone