I'm speechless!

Andy Denmark · Post by **Andy Denmark** » May 15th, '10, 06:38

Gray water discharge from onboard sources is next on the agenda.

http://cruising.sailboatowners.com/csbb ... p-message/
________
MEXICO HOTELS

Jim Davis · Post by **Jim Davis** » May 15th, '10, 07:05

This seems to be a case of Washington state law exceeding Federal law and Environmental Vigilantes trying to "shakedown" wealthy boat owners/marinas.

The EPA regs are for over recreational boats 79 feet and all commercial ones. We are generally exempt, but would be wise to follow the regs,

http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/vessel_vgp_factsheet.pdf

drb9 · Post by **drb9** » May 15th, '10, 07:35

They're going after boaters for the effect of phosphates in soap that washes into the water, yet they leave alone the millions of homeowners who overfertilize their yards with phosphates, all of which eventually flow into the waterways.

Joe Myerson · Post by **Joe Myerson** » May 15th, '10, 08:32

Obviously, the zealots in the PSKA need to turn their attention to homeowners, gardeners, agribusiness and urban storm drains.

But I've recently become a big fan of vinegar and water. I keep spray bottles of each on board. It works well under most circumstances, and if used regularly, reduces the need for other cleaning products.

Of course, someday somebody might decide that rinsing 5% acetic acid into the bay contributes to acidification of the seas.

--Joe

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » May 15th, '10, 20:33

Obviously, the zealots in the PSKA need to turn their attention to homeowners, gardeners, agribusiness and urban storm drains.

Or somebody put them in touch with British Petroleum!

tartansailor · Post by **tartansailor** » May 16th, '10, 07:24

Dissolve a package of baking soda in a bucket of warm water.
It forms a crystal clear colorless solution, and does a great job
when swabbing and cleaning up bird droppings and normal crud found on boat decks, and
no foam.

I also like Joe's idea of the vinegar squirt bottle.

Dick

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » May 16th, '10, 08:19

And if you alternate using vinegar solution and baking soda solution, maybe you will not be over acidifying or basing (basifying?) the environmental waters!

(':D')

Dean's spouse Marvo

Jim Davis · Post by **Jim Davis** » May 18th, '10, 20:15

I wonder what they are supposed to do if it rains.

The whole situation is lacking anyone with common sense.

http://cruising.sailboatowners.com/csbb ... get-sound/

Joe Myerson · Post by **Joe Myerson** » May 18th, '10, 20:21

Well, there's always rainwater--and, supposedly, lots of it out there.

--Joe

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » May 18th, '10, 20:34

tartansailor wrote:Dissolve a package of baking soda in a bucket of warm water.

I also like Joe's idea of the vinegar squirt bottle.

That will offset Joe's notion of raising the acidity of the bay, too. As for your "no foam" comment, try baking soda and vinegar in the same bucket.

alan cohen · Post by **alan cohen** » May 19th, '10, 07:08

Try Dr Bronner's. It's 100% organic and been around forever. The wackiest of wacky environmentalists can't say boo about it. That is unless they are just looking for something to say boo about. It comes in a concentrate and if you mix a mild solution it will not foam thus not raising unnecessary attention.

http://www.drbronner.com/

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » May 19th, '10, 07:32

I don't think weather a soap, or any other cleaning product, is organic or not has much bearing on the issue.

Chicken manure is organic. If you heavily fertilized your lawn with it instead of some chemical fertilizer and allowed it to run into a water body it would still have a negative effect. That and a very stinky lawn but it would be organic.

I wonder what the history of the Puget Sound area is, concerning boat maintnence. It seems like there is usually an underlying problem that brings out a crazy, unreasonable, reaction. This seems to be the phase this is in. Then once the issue is brought to light a reasonable standard is adopted to deal with the problem. If everybody or nobody is happy then it is probably the right solution.

I doubt the boat owners want to pollute the sound either but they do want to clean their boats, Steve.

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » May 19th, '10, 07:39

Chicken manure is organic. If you heavily fertilized your lawn with it instead of some chemical fertilizer and allowed it to run into a water body it would still have a negative effect. That and a very stinky lawn but it would be organic.

Steve, are your neighbors STILL complaining about that?

alan cohen · Post by **alan cohen** » May 20th, '10, 15:46

Steve Laume wrote:Chicken manure is organic. If you heavily fertilized your lawn with it instead of some chemical fertilizer and allowed it to run into a water body it would still have a negative effect. That and a very stinky lawn but it would be organic.

That's a silly analogy, Steve. How can you compare "heavily fertilizing your lawn with chicken manure" with washing boats in the Puget Sound?

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » May 20th, '10, 16:14

The analogy was not to compare chicken manure to soap. It was to compare organic fertilizer or soap to the non organic type. Sorry if that was confusing.

Biodegradable, might be a better solution than organic soap.

The best solution would be rationality which is often in shorter supply than un-neutered male bovine manure, Steve.

The Cape Dory Board

I'm speechless!

I'm speechless!

Only because this is a family board

Sounds like the Riverkeeps needed a fundraising campaign . .

Vinegar and water

Change of Venue

Baking Soda

pH balanced

Hide your vinegar and baking soda

At least it's rainy on Puget Sound

Re: Baking Soda

No let-up?