Ron
What to do with a stern rail mount
Moderator: Jim Walsh
What to do with a stern rail mount
I have inquired with at least a dozen would be welders, but i can't get anybody out to my boatyard here in brooklyn, to spot weld one of my post to the stern rail. Anyone know of any welders in the metro area, I hate like heck to have to remove the entire stern rail.
Ron
Ron
ask around
Most welders want a big job if out of shop.
Ask around the yard to see if anybody needs any welding done if you get enough people even if they are small tac jobs, the more the merrier.
Its not the size of the job its the travel & setup. most of the time set up takes longer than the job.
And seeing the location of the weld its going to generate a good amount of heat. i would worry about the deck. If its a stick job you have splatter & heat. If tig. No splatter just heat.
B.B.
Ask around the yard to see if anybody needs any welding done if you get enough people even if they are small tac jobs, the more the merrier.
Its not the size of the job its the travel & setup. most of the time set up takes longer than the job.
And seeing the location of the weld its going to generate a good amount of heat. i would worry about the deck. If its a stick job you have splatter & heat. If tig. No splatter just heat.
B.B.
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Warren Kaplan
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:44
- Location: Former owner of Sine Qua Non CD27 #166 1980 Oyster Bay Harbor, NY Member # 317
Ron,
I had the exact same thing happen to me but on the bow pulpit. I wound up getting a new "stanchion base", one where the stanchion would fit into a socket and I secured it with a set screw (actually drilled the stanchion, tapped the hole in both the base and stanchion and put in a machine screw to hold it in place.)
I did this a while ago and I can't remember if the new base fit the holes in the deck for the securing screws perfectly of if I had to fill the old holes with epoxy and drill new ones for the new base.
I should be out at the boat one of these days and I'll take photos.
I can't remember the exact part I bought but I'm sure you can find one that will do the job in a west marine catalog. I'll look too and see if it jogs my memory.
Oh yeah. While I remember. Many of these stanchion bases have the "socket" for the stanchion to fit in at an angle. They vary in degrees of angle. So get an idea if your stanchion came to the deck at 90 degrees or at some angle. Its important when buying the right stanchion base.
I had the exact same thing happen to me but on the bow pulpit. I wound up getting a new "stanchion base", one where the stanchion would fit into a socket and I secured it with a set screw (actually drilled the stanchion, tapped the hole in both the base and stanchion and put in a machine screw to hold it in place.)
I did this a while ago and I can't remember if the new base fit the holes in the deck for the securing screws perfectly of if I had to fill the old holes with epoxy and drill new ones for the new base.
I should be out at the boat one of these days and I'll take photos.
I can't remember the exact part I bought but I'm sure you can find one that will do the job in a west marine catalog. I'll look too and see if it jogs my memory.
Oh yeah. While I remember. Many of these stanchion bases have the "socket" for the stanchion to fit in at an angle. They vary in degrees of angle. So get an idea if your stanchion came to the deck at 90 degrees or at some angle. Its important when buying the right stanchion base.
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
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Warren Kaplan
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:44
- Location: Former owner of Sine Qua Non CD27 #166 1980 Oyster Bay Harbor, NY Member # 317
Ron,
On page 556 of the 2010 West Marine Catalog (Rail Hardware) you will find the "rail bases" I was talking about. Your stanchion fits into one of these bases either at 90 degrees or at one of the angles shown.
By the way, I can't remember the diameter of the stanchion but you need to know that to get the proper size. They have bases for "tube sizes" of either 7/8" or 1".
Hope this helps. West Marine's catalog is online so I bet you can find it under rail hardware or rail bases.
On page 556 of the 2010 West Marine Catalog (Rail Hardware) you will find the "rail bases" I was talking about. Your stanchion fits into one of these bases either at 90 degrees or at one of the angles shown.
By the way, I can't remember the diameter of the stanchion but you need to know that to get the proper size. They have bases for "tube sizes" of either 7/8" or 1".
Hope this helps. West Marine's catalog is online so I bet you can find it under rail hardware or rail bases.
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
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Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
Ron, I would just bite the bullet and take the thing off to get it fixed. You may create more problems than you solve by trying to do it in place.
I suppose you could get a stanchion base to replace that one side but you are still going to have to remove the bolts and deal with new holes with the rail in the way.
Six bolts and six screws will take the thing right off to be properly welded without the risk of messing up your gel coat or bright work. Then you can check the core at the inner most bolts and rebed everything.
I just pulled my stern rail to rebed and to make doing the bright work easier. I also want to run my GPS antenna cable inside the rail so it was well worth removing it. I dreaded the job but it was pretty easy once you get inside the locker to put a wrench on the nuts. I helps a lot to have someone to man the screwdriver while in the locker.
I am going to replace the screws with Philips heads so it is easier to get at them next time, Steve.
I suppose you could get a stanchion base to replace that one side but you are still going to have to remove the bolts and deal with new holes with the rail in the way.
Six bolts and six screws will take the thing right off to be properly welded without the risk of messing up your gel coat or bright work. Then you can check the core at the inner most bolts and rebed everything.
I just pulled my stern rail to rebed and to make doing the bright work easier. I also want to run my GPS antenna cable inside the rail so it was well worth removing it. I dreaded the job but it was pretty easy once you get inside the locker to put a wrench on the nuts. I helps a lot to have someone to man the screwdriver while in the locker.
I am going to replace the screws with Philips heads so it is easier to get at them next time, Steve.
The stern rail...
Hey BB, warren and steve, thanks for responding.
Well I thought of all your responses, what will happen to the deck while welding, the stanchion base and of course removing the rail. The base won't work because the angle is 75%, and they only make a 90 60 or 45.
Take care,
Ron
Well I thought of all your responses, what will happen to the deck while welding, the stanchion base and of course removing the rail. The base won't work because the angle is 75%, and they only make a 90 60 or 45.
Take care,
Ron
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The Patriot
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mar 14th, '05, 09:14
Re: What to do with a stern rail mount
I don't think you have a choice. I had this same problem once in Florida and had to remove the rail and drag it to a shop for a quick repair before heading offshore. I don't know much about welding but a friend I was sailing with did, and he assured me that removal and welding offsite was the only sure fix. At the same time it allowed the welder to check and reinforce the other three base plates. Later, having gone this far, I removed the rail once again when I was back in my home waters to eliminate the sternlight plate while re-locating the stern light. I also replaced several screws that the CD factory had used on the taffrail base plates with machine bolts and backing plates. There was a bit of fuss involved (as always), but the job was eventually done correctly. No problems since.RonE58 wrote: ... i can't get anybody out to my boatyard ... to spot weld one of my post to the stern rail ... I hate like heck to have to remove the entire stern rail ... [/URL]
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Broken Weld
Bummer,
Warren's idea sounds like the easy way to go. It's too bad that WM didn't have the correct base available for you. Did you try any other marine suppliers?
If you remove the pushpit from the deck, I suggest that before anything is disturbed, it might prove helpful to make vertical marks on both the base and the tubing to ensure proper alignment after they are removed for welding. A fine line magic marker or a Sharpie will do the job well.
Aligning the two pieces properly will not only line up the base to the original deck screw holes but will also help maintain the 75° angle.
Good luck,
O J
Warren's idea sounds like the easy way to go. It's too bad that WM didn't have the correct base available for you. Did you try any other marine suppliers?
If you remove the pushpit from the deck, I suggest that before anything is disturbed, it might prove helpful to make vertical marks on both the base and the tubing to ensure proper alignment after they are removed for welding. A fine line magic marker or a Sharpie will do the job well.
Aligning the two pieces properly will not only line up the base to the original deck screw holes but will also help maintain the 75° angle.
Good luck,
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
For what its worth, when I had the radar arch installed they did the welding for the bases for it in place on the boat, with a tig welder, no damage was done to the deck at all. The bases for my radar arch though are about 4 times thicker then the pushpit bases, so perhaps dispersed the heat better.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
welding the stern rail
Some great ideas,
Yes Russell I did speak with a boatyard nearby that does welding on premise, just got to get my boat there at low tide because of the bridge height.
And yes Armond I think your right, on the long term it would pay to have all the plates looked at, I can see that another one was spot welded before I got the boat.
I also ran into a boater at the yard today who does stainless work, he recommended a guy locally that is actually bringing out is stainless steel welding gear to a place nearby this week, this guy also mentioned a tig weld was the proper way to go. I have to remove the plate so the weld is done away from the boat.
Thanks again,
Ron
Yes Russell I did speak with a boatyard nearby that does welding on premise, just got to get my boat there at low tide because of the bridge height.
And yes Armond I think your right, on the long term it would pay to have all the plates looked at, I can see that another one was spot welded before I got the boat.
I also ran into a boater at the yard today who does stainless work, he recommended a guy locally that is actually bringing out is stainless steel welding gear to a place nearby this week, this guy also mentioned a tig weld was the proper way to go. I have to remove the plate so the weld is done away from the boat.
Thanks again,
Ron
Another solution
Ron
I have had this same problem, but with my bow pulpit, three out of the four welds have broken.
I could not easily get the fourth and last plate free from the bow due to accsess problems underneath, so, necessity is the mother of invention.
What I did was to take some stainless bolts, i think 3/8" by about 6"long and drilled 1/8" inch holes in the bolt just about 1/2" inch from the head. I then drilled 1/8" holes in the pulpit about 2 to 3 inches from where they sit in the weld. Then i drilled 5/8" holes in the deck fiberglass at the same angle the pulpit goes to the deck.
Now I am ready to push the 3/8" bolt up from the bottom of the deck into the pulpit rail and line up the holes in the bolt with the holes in the pilpit rail and slip a 1/8" bolt about 1 1nd 1/2" long thru the pulpit and the bolt inside and secure with a locking nut.
Once this is done it is a simple matter to put some washers on the bolt underneath the deck and a locking nut and draw the bolt and the pulpit down tight to the deck and captured in the hole where the weld broke.
I have done this on three of the four brackets on my bow pulpit,and they are as strong and rigid as the welded originals. The entire pulpit is rigid and strong.
Lastly you may want to apply some caulk or silicone to seal up the broken weld to stop leaks.
This is a great fix to avoid the problem you are going thru of trying to find a way to get the welds fixed.
Give it a try.
Darrell
I have had this same problem, but with my bow pulpit, three out of the four welds have broken.
I could not easily get the fourth and last plate free from the bow due to accsess problems underneath, so, necessity is the mother of invention.
What I did was to take some stainless bolts, i think 3/8" by about 6"long and drilled 1/8" inch holes in the bolt just about 1/2" inch from the head. I then drilled 1/8" holes in the pulpit about 2 to 3 inches from where they sit in the weld. Then i drilled 5/8" holes in the deck fiberglass at the same angle the pulpit goes to the deck.
Now I am ready to push the 3/8" bolt up from the bottom of the deck into the pulpit rail and line up the holes in the bolt with the holes in the pilpit rail and slip a 1/8" bolt about 1 1nd 1/2" long thru the pulpit and the bolt inside and secure with a locking nut.
Once this is done it is a simple matter to put some washers on the bolt underneath the deck and a locking nut and draw the bolt and the pulpit down tight to the deck and captured in the hole where the weld broke.
I have done this on three of the four brackets on my bow pulpit,and they are as strong and rigid as the welded originals. The entire pulpit is rigid and strong.
Lastly you may want to apply some caulk or silicone to seal up the broken weld to stop leaks.
This is a great fix to avoid the problem you are going thru of trying to find a way to get the welds fixed.
Give it a try.
Darrell