Harken Traveller on CD-33

[Zeida]

For quite a while I've been lusting for a harken traveller system. has anyone installed one to replace the original traveller that comes with the 1981 CD-33? Would love to hear from you. Thanks.

[tartansailor]

I installed a Harken "mid-range" traveler on my CD 25.
The following may, or may not apply to your much bigger boat.

5/4 mahogany stock was needed to accommodate the wider track.
That replaced the athwart-ship 1/2" piece that featured the Cape Dory name plate. The top surface has a radius of arc of 66" while the bottom of the 3" piece has a radius of 63" (yes I used a cable to scribe the curve)

In order to get it to work, a spacer was needed between new piece and my engine hatch cover, so that the wider carriage would clear. That will probably not apply to your boat.

Now the track bends easily, but the trick is to drill all of the track screw holes perpendicular in the curved track.

Start by drilling the center hole.
Bend the track and mark the centers for the adjacent holes.
Re fixture the 5/4 so that your drill bit is perpendicular to the plane
at the center punch, then drill. Repeat for all remaining holes.

Now securing the wood supporting the track is specific to your boat, but on my boat I have (6) 3/8" through bolts.

Now my control line is continuous from one cam cleat to the next, terminating at the port and stbd. pulley blocks.

Hope this helps.

Dick

[Zeida]

Hi Dick...
in the pix below you can see that my traveller is right in front of the companionway entrance -on the bridge- on a very flat surface. So what I am wondering is what would the modifications need to be, if any, if I remove the existing one in order to fit the Harken equivalent.

[img[/img]

[tartansailor]

Hi Zeida,
Nice boat!
I can see nothing to interfere with a direct substitution as long as
the old and new tracks are of the same width, height, and hole spacing.
My Harken track is 27 mm wide, 15 mm high, and the hole spacing is 4"
The existing hole spacing for the track tie down bolts may or may not be the same.
The width of the traveler car is 68 mm, and the height of the widest portion of the car extends from the bottom of the track, up 18 mm.

What does all this mean?
It means that the center line of your new track needs to be at least
34 mm away from any bridge deck vertical surface. 1&3/4" would be preferred.

If you have to cut your new track to fit length wise, try and get the end holes equally spaced from the ends, bearing in mind that the end holes will be used to fasten down the short end of the P&S end blocks.

Now the end block cam cleat base extends 3&1/4" back from the track center line. From there to your lazarette you need that dimension plus hand room to work the lines.

I sincerely hope that this helps, and please feel free to bmail me with any questions.
Dick

[Bill Goldsmith]

Zeida,

I am in the process of upgrading my traveler to a Harken. It's a completely different setup (the 32 has mid-boom sheeting and a riser bridge) so I won't bore you with all the details (but I may write them up for a separate posting).

The one comment I have is that I am a HUGE fan of Rigging Only in Fairhaven MA. (a/k/a The Rigging Loft). If you are pretty handy and can handle the installation, they are a great source of parts and advice, they are very patient on the phone (Tom in particular). They made a number of excellent suggestions that I am incorporating. And their prices are really good.

The great thing about Harken travelers is that they are infinitely customizable, but that can lead to "option fatigue." That's where a place like RO can really help. A good rigger can do that as well, but at $100/hr. or more.

[Russell]

Zeida, have you considered switching to mid boom sheeting and putting the traveler on the cabintop? I imagine upgrading you are going to go with a line adjustable traveler, and I think that would add an awful lot to trip on in its current location. I would imagine the boom section used on the 33 is the same as the one on the 36, which if you can verify, you will know the section is strong enough for mid boom sheeting. Harken makes everything you need for a bridge for the cabin top. Anyway, food for though, I would likely try to go this route if I was in your place.

[sfreihofer]

Hi Zeida;

If you get the Harken traveller and need help on the installation, keep me in mind!

Stan Freihofer
1981 CD 25 #794
Ft. Lauderdale

For quite a while I've been lusting for a harken traveller system. has anyone installed one to replace the original traveller that comes with the 1981 CD-33? Would love to hear from you. Thanks.

[Zeida]

Russell...

Many times I have wondered about the change you are suggesting; switching the traveller to the cabintop.

However... most of the time I am by myself. Even when not, I am the one who hoists the sails (with the wheel on autohelm 3000).. The main on the 33, as you know, is BIG. plus, I have full length battens and a Doyle StackPack with lazy jacks to catch it when it comes down. So I am by the mast when I hoist and when I douse the main... and often need to walk all over the cabintop to unzip and zip the StackPack and fold my mainsail. I hurry back to the cockpit as soon as I can...sometimes, more than once during those operations. Normally, I jump/swing into the cockpit, and I do this by grabbing on to the main sheet in the traveller, which gives me a great place to grab onto in a hurry. i have always felt that by leading those lines aft to the cockpit I would have to deal with greater friction/tension on the main halyard as I hoist, which I don't need. So I prefer to keep the line at the mast.

I would have to make modifications to bring all the lines back to the cockpit, even to my dodger... a no-no at this point in time. By now I am very comfortable with the mainsheet and traveller in the companionway position. I don't trip over it and it gives me always a great place to hang on.

The reason I would have preferred the Harken version is because when time comes I have to ease or move the main under load, to port or stbd. I have to physically push the big fiddle block to one side or the other and it is hard to do. It would be much easier to pull in or ease the Harken lines. It gives you much more control and ease of handling, but I would still prefer to keep it in the cockpit. I will get the true dimensions of my traveller track and explore a bit more if this is possible or not. Plus, I don't think my traveller car is the original one. It does not match the holes on the track and I have to keep the car in place by plugging in a thick short bolt into the holes. So it is sort of an improvised arrangement that I have there. It has worked for all the years I've had the boat (12 yrs. now) but it would make my life easier if I had the Harken traveller.
[img[/img]

[Zeida]

Stan.... GREAT to hear from you! If I get that traveller, I would really love to take you up on your offer. How is your beautiful baby coming along? Wait until you hear what happened to me during the haulout 3 weeks ago. I almost lost the boat! But she is back on her slip. Regards to all of you.

z

[Ron M.]

As an alternative consideration take a look at Garhauer systems. I installed one 2 years ago.........very nice, well engineered and cost competitive.
________
Mazda Az-Wagon Specifications

[Tom Keevil]

Zeida,

Having a line-controlled traveller is a huge improvement, and we highly recommend it to you. You are right-on about the advantages of a bridge deck traveller also. It is easy to access, and the mainsheet makes a wonderful handhold.

The manufacturer of your traveller system was Nicro-Fico. It is possible to get upgrade parts for this system from Rig-Rite. We did this some years ago, and converted it to a line-controlled 3-1 system. The big advantage was that we didn't have to change the track, and the new system fit into the existing setup with few modifications. As I recall, it was not going to be easy to find a system that would fit into the bridgedeck groove that holds the track and car.

There are some disadvantages to this approach, however. First of all, you will be getting 30-40 year old technology, and there have been a lot of improvements in the past decades. Second, you have to deal with Rig-Rite. Although things worked out ok in the end, it took longer than we would have liked, and we had to return a part that was not manufactured correctly.

We have a system with the blocks and cam cleat mounted on the track. This is not ideal, in that it required us to raise the track about 1/4" (a pain in the neck, that also required us to buy an impact wrench), and the lines exit right into the end of our cockpit cushions, so we need to move the cushions to get a good pull on the lines. Placement of those blocks is complicated by those scuppers in the bridge deck, and it's not obvious what the best solution would be.

But, even though our system is not the perfect solution, we are thankful we have it every time we sail. I would suggest you walk the docks and look for bridgedeck traveller setups, and try to find the best compromise with your boat's arrangement, and then go for it - you will not regret it.

[Zeida]

Hi Tom... Thanks for chiming in on this topic. You are confirming all my thoughts about trying to get this done, somehow. I've been looking at the Harken travellers and it seems they would require a major mod. i looked at the Garhauers too.

What you tell me about RigRite and the NicroFico seems to me the best option, b/c I agree with you that not having to remove the existing track would be a major advantage. I agree with you that I will be using a 40 yr old technology, but heck, our boats are now also old, and I will be old too, sooner than later. ANYTHING even slightly better than what I have now would be a welcome change for me.

I have a friend here, Stan Freihofer, who also posted on this thread, who is doing a remarkable refit of a forlorn CD25 he found. He gutted the entire interior and most of the exterior and has brought her back to better than new. All the woodwork inside is brand new, as well as all the ext. teak. His boat is so much better than the original... so maybe we can figure out exactly what to order from RigRite and he has offered to help me install it.

So thanks a million for the tip, because I think it may work out. I wonder what is it with this RigRite people that they manage to upset almost everyone that deals with them. We will just have to be patient.

[mike ritenour]

Zeida,

I have pondered the same upgrade for awhile now and found several real problems.

Getting to the underside of the traveler and its bolts are VERY difficult. Its not so much taking the track off, its getting the new one bolted on. There is VERY limited access to the bolts and where they are located. (I think they installed the traveler and then put the deck onto the hull. )

On "LaVida" I found I could not access that area without cutting away some very important fiberglass that helps make up the bridge deck. That was a no go for me.

Next I thought of attaching the new traveler on top of the old one, but that too brought its own problems, with the attachment.

However with some good planning and cutting away some metal of the existing traveler, one might be able to mount a new track on the old track. However you would then have a really high stack of tracks and that would make it very uncomfortable to sit.

Then I thought of getting the current traveler car upgraded but found that no one is making a car that would fit. (The bearings on my old car are just about shot and I will need to replace the car in the near future).

My only remaining idea is to take the old car off and have a machine shop create a new car for me, which I think will cost around $500.00+, if it can be replicated. However that will not get me to the full upgrade I seek.

So the long and short of it........I don't know what to do. I'm sure all other 33 owners are, or will be, up against the same problem and perhaps if we all put our heads together, we might come up with a solution.

Keep in touch.....I'm sure we will find something to fix this.

sea u,
Rit

[Tom Keevil]

Mike,

I don't think there are any nuts on the bottom of the traveller bolts. They "just" screwed out, and then the new bolts screwed back in. We did not have to access the bottom of the bridge deck. I think there is a steel bar down there that has threaded holes to accept the bolts. Once we broke the bolts free it was a snap to remove the track.

We got a new car from Rig Rite as part of our remodel.
http://www.rigrite.com/Travellers/NF_Tr ... F1169.html

[Zeida]

Tom, I thought you said you did not have to remove the track... but were able to use the existing one? You say to Mike that After you broke the bolts free it was a snap to remove the track....
can you explain a bit more just how were you able to do this, and do you have pictures? Thanks