Americas Cup!

[Dean Abramson]

I am happy to hear that Ellison will be going back to the traditional format. I have not followed the politics of this, and did not realize that he was on record supporting that. I just assumed that this match was a product of a huge pissing contest on both sides.

I have to admit, I also rooted for Oracle and was glad to see them win. I wish, though (and I also wish that this were so in the Olympics), that all of the crew were required to be legal citizens of the country from where the challenge is mounted. I would love to see an all-American (men and women together) team challenge comparable teams from elsewhere. And I bet the networks would like it better too. And although I am a monohull fan, the speed of multihulls might be a way to attract more casual viewers. Just not ones so huge and high-tech that most syndicates can not afford to compete.

I have no right to be sanctimonious about this. After all, I follow Formula One auto racing with a passion! It's just as exce$$ive, less green, and a lot more dangerous.

Zeida, I am glad you enjoyed it.

Dean

[okawbow]

I watched both races live, and also was impressed by what I saw. the Americas Cup has always been a rich mans way to show off. That said, it's really none of my business to criticize them for being what they are. It's their money. If they and their sponsors want to spend 200 million dollars to satisfy their egos; why should I be offended? I appreciate the coverage they provided for free, and without commercials.

I think there is a place for an event that allows sailors to push the envelope of technology. Personally, though, I would prefer to watch a more competitive race using smaller, more conventional boats.

[Zeida]

Hi Dean...

I have followed Americas Cup racing since Ted Turner won with his Courageous. Then the crews were required to be all-Americans. Much has changed since then. I cheered for Dennis Conner in his wins and his loses...I fell in love with Black Magic -the Kiwi boat skippered by Russell Coutts when he beat Dennis and America lost the Cup 15 years ago. That's when the Kiwis started to demonstrate what superb sailors they were. Yes, it is a sport not for the poor pockets. As you well say, it is like Formula Racing, and for me, just as exciting.

I would have LOVED to be one of the sailors on board Oracle! What a speed. How can these machines make 20 knots of speed in 7 knots of wind? that blows my mind!

I have followed all the Fastenet races, the Sydney-Hobart races and all the OSTAR Round-the-World - the Volvo Singlehanded races and the Whitbread crewed round-the-world races. As you can see, I guess I am a race nut! because of that I have developed a tremendous respect for those sailors of diff. nationalities that bring such experience, daring and excitement to the sport. The French, the British, the Australians and New Zealanders, as well as the Americans who although are lagging behind because there is no national support for our sport, still are a considerable contingent. And now, that we have the Cup back, Larry is promising to make it even more exciting in 2013. Thank goodness for his deep pockets, because even Dennis could not get enough $$ to help in his last attempt and only Ellison remained committed. He is considering San Francisco or Rhode Island (Newport) as the next venue. He wants to involve sports TV... who knows, maybe he can succeed.

I followed all the antics of Ernesto Bertarelli -the Swiss billionaire behind the Alinghi challenge when he tried to eliminate Ellison from being the challenger of record... this fight goes back right after Alinghi supposedly beat New Zealand BY :02 seconds! in the last Cup. He wanted the Spanish boat, a relative newcomer and first-timer to the competition to become the challenger of record - it became really ugly and it was not Ellison's fault. Finally through years of legal wrangling the Court ruled in Oracle's favor, and we just saw the results! how sweet it is!

I love the huge J-boats, those monsters, and there are now at least seven of them already racing, but in Europe. Maybe in the near future we may see them in Newport. As you can see, I follow this sport big time, and as I sail my sweet Cape Dory and enjoy the pleasure it gives me, I also think of all those other sailors, past and present, who "go down to the sea in ships"... whether cruising...or RACING!

[Zeida]

FYI... here's only part of what had been going on...

"...I thought you might enjoy the pictures and article linked to below. Also, Allinghi lost their effort to manipulate the Cup measurement rule. They wanted to do the measurements with the boat empty and then later add water ballast during competition.Oracle claimed foul, violation of measurement rules. So they went to court. Oracle won their argument again. Allinghi's waterline increases significantly because of the long bow overhangs when she takes on water ballast. Oracle does not because she has plumb bows so her waterline stays consistent throughout her potential ballast range. So as you can see Allinghi was trying to gain an advantage again by manipulating rules. Not this time, now they have a design problem. They may have to sail with two masts to allow for the extended LWL they would gain with full water ballast. Or they will have to redesign the hulls. Team spokesman blows it off as a minor issue. Far from the truth, they have a huge problem. Oracle has shipped their huge cat and wing to Valencia, you can image what that must take, a couple frighters and a hell of a lot of money. All I can say is Ellison is a guy possessed, he must live, breathe and eat this stuff 24/7. Gotta give him credit, he wants to bring it back badly. He will be a hero if they can pull it off. I think they have an edge on Allinghi because I think the US sailing community has more experience with them. If that huge wing foil can't win then I give up hope. It is incredible engineering and design..."

[mgphl52]

Ok, I'm just an old dinosaur, but I know that there was a time when the boats had to sail to the port for a race. At least those sailors didn't have to fret over "bad" conditions breaking the thing in half. I, too, would love to see either the J boats or 12 meter boats racing... along with the round robin races for both defender and challenger!

-michael

PS: Yes. I did finally succumb and "watched" some of the race footage online. It was fast & exciting, but just didn't seem like real Cup racing to me.

[Neil Gordon]

Ok, I'm just an old dinosaur, but I know that there was a time when the boats had to sail to the port for a race.

That's too much of a home field advantage to be fair. I do though think that you could get significant technology develpment, in the form of advanced materials and design, even if the rules limited those designs to "traditional."

I'd like to see what modern engineering would do with one hull, 28' LOA, 4' draft, 9000 lbs of boat w/ 3000 lbs of lead in the keel, etc.

[S/Y Bella]

Like many members of this board, I am also a huge fan of traditional yachts and believed for years the America's Cup Race had somehow gotten off track. Over the last few years I have begun to read extensively about yacht design and sailing/racing history. The yacht "Amerca", when it sail across to compete for the first time in was innovative compared to other competing yachts. When Capt. Nat designed Reliance (read Temple to the Wind) it was at the extreme for the times and available technology, it was considered dangerous to sail at the time. During this time period the yacht had to arrive on its own bottom, however, the huge racing rigs where taken down and strapped to the deck for delivery because they where to fragil to cross the ocean. When Olin Stephens took over as the designer of these yachts, he pushed the envelope further with the use of aluminum, tank testing, sail fabrics, keel and rudder configurations and much more (read All This and Sailing Too). The America's Cup Race has always been about pushing the limits and technology. Many of the innovations designed for the race have made it to the general public in time. So although I personally love traditional designs, that has never been what the cup race is about. It should be about good sportsmanship and I do feel the legal wrangling has given the sport a black eye in the public's view.

[Carter Brey]

I tuned in to the first race the other morning with my coffee cup at the ready. It remained poised in midair, doomed to cool in the morning air, as I realized that I was watching a sailboat sailing downwind, close-hauled. How amazing is that?

Perhaps solid wing technology will some day be the norm in pleasure sailing, supplanting dacron as dacron supplanted canvas, polyester and Spectra supplanted hemp, and wooden hulls gave way to fiberglass. But sailors will always have available to them the precise degree of anachronism they desire; soft sails will not disappear any time soon, nor will triple braid hemp.

The discussion reminds me of a scene from the first chapter of C.S. Forester's Admiral Hornblower in the West Indies. Hornblower, a few years after Waterloo, has just witnessed the first steam tugs operating around the port of New Orleans:

"Your lordship made use of the services of a steam tug?"
"Yes, by George!" exclaimed Hornblower.
"A remarkable experience for your lordship, apparently?"
"Indeed, yes," said Hornblower. "I--"

He held himself back from giving utterance to all his thoughts on that subject... [Hornblower] remembered discussions at home, when he was a half-pay officer awaiting his promotion to flag rank, when the "steam kettles" had been mentioned. Even the possibility of ocean-going ships propelled by steam had been suggested, and had been properly laughed to scorn--it would mean the ruin of good seamanship. Hornblower had not been quite so sure on the point, but he had been careful to keep his opinions to himself, having no desire to be regarded as a dangerous crank...

Aren't those books the best? I have to confess to a preference for Forester's psychologically fraught style over that of Patrick O'Brian, but that's another topic for another time.

Carter

[Warren Kaplan]

I just received my March 2010 Sailing Magazine yesterday. Bill Schanen's Full and By column on page 6 gives a pretty good sense of what I think most of the sailing community feels about the metamorphosis of a sailing event that at times captured the world's attention into one that isn't even mentioned in most of the press, save, perhaps, lawyers' publications.

If you get a chance to read this, I would. I'd post it but we just went through the business about posting articles out of magazines without permission. I'm sure eventually you can get it on their website http://www.sailingmagazine.net but I doubt the current print issue is on that site yet.

[Neil Gordon]

One of the appeals of Stock Car Racing is that the cars, at least from the outside, look pretty much like "stock cars." There's something there that fans can identify with.

Keep in mind a significant difference between the Americas Cup event and most other pro sports events. The owner of our local NFL team makes no bones about the notion that he is in the entertainment business. Fans matter and the product responds accordingly.

[Tom Keevil]

I'm not sure that fairness has historically played a large role in the America's Cup. These folks wanted to win at any cost even in the glorified "good old days."

Originally the challenger had to sail against an entire fleet of defenders. The defending yacht was chosen each day before the race.

The defenders for most of the cup history had to sail to the race. They thus had to be designed to survive a trans-Atlantic passage, and provide accommodations for the crew. The defender could be designed for the light airs prevalent on the course, and could be empty below. The early races were on courses where local knowledge of winds and currents was essential for victory.

As for highly expensive technology used to win a race with little thought for the long term future, consider the boat below.



A beautiful classic, right? Well, to save 15 or 20 tons of displacement, this boat, Defender, designed by the immortal Nat Herreshoff was built of a bronze hull and an aluminum deck affixed to steel frames . Electrolysis anyone? It survived 5 years.

I think the error is that many of us consider sailing a sport. The America's Cup is something else altogether, and we have to take it for what it is.

Tom Keevil

[Dick Barthel]

To extend Neil's auto analogy, haven't they in effect taken a drag racer and put in on a road course?

[Steve Laume]

More like a NASCAR track. I don't think those things handle well enough for a Grand Prix course, Steve.

[wsonntag]

Zeida:

Thanks for the initial post and links - and thanks for the reasoned defense of this unique event, technology marches on regardless. We can choose what moves us from the past and still enjoy the present and future. Car analogy - I drive 1960's 1970's design era Alfa Romeos, love the simple design, wrench turning and aesthetics. That does not stop me from appreciating current Formula 1 (w/all its legal and organizational shenanigans) the incredible technology on the race course that finds its way into Ferraris, Hondas, Audis etc and trickles down to club racing.

Bill Sonntag
SURPRISE
CD 31 Hull No 30

ELF (member of member/ownership organization Board of Directors)
Restored 1888 Racing Cutter (photo - off Independence Seaport Museum Philadelphia Summer 2009)
(in addition to her out-sized rig - specific innovative racing technology aboard when launched: early wire standing rigging - first wire to traditional line splices for select halyards)

[Zeida]

Hi Bill... what a BEAUTY that classic!. And thanks for your comments... I did enjoy tremendously watching those two marvelous vessels, the cat vs. the tri! How awsome their design, the technology that went into their creation, the audacity of those sailors that stepped up to the challenge... of course, I clearly cheered for Oracle, the stunning USA17 whose shape I found so inspiring. Its crew work was magnificent...only a shame those two boats will not race again, but boy, I would love to have a mini-version of that wing on my CD-33! Check out the link below and read about the MUTINY of the Swiss sailors on the race flagboat who refused to do the flags on the second race...! Incredible the length the Alinghi syndicate tried going to stop Oracle... and in the end, they could not! I think the new Cup will be something spectacular! I also love Nascar, even though I love my Cape Dory best.

http://www.sailingworld.com/americas-cu ... 80427.html