cotter pin length and angle

[henry hey]

Hello Folks,

I was awake late last night and so I turned on netflix (on demand) and watched some of 'Annapolis book of seamanship - part 3'

Of course this stuff bores my wife to tears, but she was asleep

They were talking about cotter pin length and about the angle at which the split should be set when the pins are installed in the turnbuckles (before taping).

He (the host/instructor) said that the pin should be 1 1/3 times the length of the shaft that it's going through and that the angle of the split (when you split them on the other side) should be about 45 degrees.

Evidently, this is so that you can easily remove the pins should your rig go down and you need to clear everything.

I hadn't really thought about it in this detail. I wonder I am one of the few who didn't know this.

- henry

[Oswego John]

Hi henry,

No, you're not alone. Include me on your side. My jury is still out deciding if this is how it should be done, or not.

I have always used pins that are long enough to fold back on themselved so as to leave a smooth surface on the clevis pin shackle pin, turnbuckle or what ever it is that is being secured.

In proportion to what the cotter pins cost in relation to the importance of the job they do, the pins (even SS) are cheap enough to use new ones each time that they are removed.

I can't bear to think of someone slicing their hand or arm on the unprotected stubs of cotter pins set on 45° angles. I don't want to even think about a sail snagging on the pin's open ends. When folded back tightly to the turnbuckle body, it is much easier to put a few wraps of rigging tape around the whole area in question.

And then again, maybe all these past years, I have been doing it all wrong and never had a clue why.

Hmmm, thinking about this means that my jury win't get proper sleep tonight, either.

Think spring,
O J

[Markst95]

Thanks for posting, I have Netflix and didn't realize there were any sailing videos available for instant watching.

[Steve Laume]

Brian Toss recommends only spreading each leg 10 degrees. He also says that if catching on them could be an issue a blob of silicon will solve the problem.

I know from experience, that removing pins that have been completely bent over is a pain, especially with stainless steel pins.

I do completely open the pins that secure my turnbuckles but have used bronze cotters instead of stainless. The bronze pins can be opened with your fingers and easily removed for rigging adjustment. Stainless stays put with even a slight spread.

The rigging pin at my mast head has a cotter on each side and whoever installed that puppy curled the ends right around in a little loop. They certainly were not going to fall out but were a real pain to remove.

It comes down to different treatment for different locations on Raven.

May all your pins stay put, Steve.

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

A lot of what is written in these books are opinions. A perfect example is that Annapolis Seamanship says after reefing, tie excess sail with lines going around the boom. Other books advise not to run the lines around the boom.

I would suspect that the proper use of a cotter key will depend on its application.

[Neil Gordon]

A perfect example is that Annapolis Seamanship says after reefing, tie excess sail with lines going around the boom. Other books advise not to run the lines around the boom.

If your mainsail is attached to the boom with a boltrope, is there any way to gather the reefed excess except by going around the boom? The point always is to remember that the reef points are not designed to be stressed.

[Carter Brey]

Henry,

That's why I use scar pins on Delphine:

http://www.layline.com/High-Speed-Pins- ... -of-8.html

[img]http://pws.prserv.net/cbrey/scar_pins.jpg[/img]

I am so done with cotter pins.

Carter
Sabre 28 II Delphine
City Island, NY

[bottomscraper]

If you don't worry about reusing cotter pins all you need is a pair of vise grips. If you grab the head of the pin tightly with the vise grips clamped you can just "roll" the cotter pin out on the rounded head of the vise grips. You don't need to straighten the legs. It's fast and easy. Probably the best valid use for vise grips, an otherwise ugly tool. This works with any of the smaller size cotter pins like we have on our rigs. Personally I buy cotter pins by the box and never reuse them. They run about $7 for a box of 100, maybe less if you shop around. I do bend them all the way over when installing. I have had problems with cotter pins catching on running rigging. on one charter boat we were on we had one of the stays come loose because a cotter pin was lost and the clevis pin jumped out, these cotter pins were only spread about 25 degrees.

Nemo and I do a quick deck level rig inspection every day. It only takes about two minutes.

[Oswego John]

Anyone use spring SS circular clips?

I have them on one of my Tys. I insert them in springtime when I rig for the season and take them out in the fall. Never a problem, mon. (Reusable, too)

I always have a snap covered junk box handy in the tool box that includes extra circular clips as well as standard cotter pins and other sundry, necessary must haves. I need a stockpile of reserves to allow for that old bugaboo called "Dropsies".

Think spring,
O J

[Jim Buck]

GOB has an article in the current issue on how to make these. Not sure how the DIY cost or quality compares to eight for $20.

And...FWIW, I use the stainless circular clips on my 22 now but am tempted to go with wrap pins for ease of adjustment. I'd be interested in Carter's experience with these.

[The Patriot]

... talking about cotter pin length and about the angle at which the split should be set when the pins are installed in the turnbuckles ...

Try

"rod stevens" cotter pins

in Google if you want a technical overview from someone most folks consider infallible, at worst. Rod Stevens actually gave lectures on the subject and considered it vitally important. I much agree.

[David van den Burgh]

Anyone use spring SS circular clips?

Yep, we've been using - and reusing - them for a few years now. They work well.

David

[Steve Laume]

While the circular clips are reusable and avoid the dilemma of how far to spread the ends, I find them very annoying to install and remove.

I would rather just get new cotters each time, Steve.

[Tom Keevil]

A few years ago we replaced our turnbuckle rings (a pain to remove and install) with machine screws. We just inserted them through the holes, put a drop of Lock-Tite on the ends, and screwed on acorn nuts. So far so good.

We do have some cotter pins elsewhere on the rigging, and have found that the Rod Stevens approach works fine. That is, you cut the pin to 1 1/2 times the width of the clevis pin, file off the sharp corners, and spread them 10 degrees in each direction (20 degrees for the total angle between the legs).

[marka]

I use 14 guage copper wire rather than cotter pins. If you should need to remove it just cut it off with dykes.