To NYC from MA
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Dick Kobayashi
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '05, 16:31
- Location: Former owner of 3 CDs, most recently Susan B, a 25D
To NYC from MA
I am planning to sail to NYC this summer. From those of you who have done it I ask if you have any tips for sailing into the prevailing SW wind on route and also favorite/convenient harbors - how much time should I plan. I'll be in a 25D most likely. How much time for the return.
Dick K
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
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Neil Gordon
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
- Contact:
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Dick Kobayashi
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '05, 16:31
- Location: Former owner of 3 CDs, most recently Susan B, a 25D
Implied
Fleet Captain Neil (do you get a special burgee or something), We have smart members they will infer that tips on water movement are included in my question. You did. btw all the best in your new role. I have been inactive in 2009 but will be more active in 2010 - some personal issues arose in 09 - gone in 10. Best.
Dick K
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
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Jack.Ducas
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Nov 18th, '09, 12:18
- Location: Capedory 30 Fayaway Watch Hill RI
MA to NYC
At the border of the R.I. and Ct. is Watch Hill RI/Napatree Point. It's well protected from most winds and is a great anchorage area. A good place to lay over if need be. Although once there you'll probably want to stay more than a lay over. Quaint little NE seaside village. Just my two cents worth.
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JWSutcliffe
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Jul 29th, '08, 22:41
- Location: CD 31 Oryx, hull #55, based in Branford CT
How you deal with the prevailing W and SW winds in LI Sound depends entirely on how leisurely your schedule is. On our cruises east we generally plan on motoring at least part of the way back.
Ditto on the above recommendation for Napatree Point. We also like Mystic/Noank in eastern CT. A word of advice - stay away from the so-called Harbor of Refuge at Point Judith! New Haven is fairly sheltered behind the breakwater.
Ditto on the above recommendation for Napatree Point. We also like Mystic/Noank in eastern CT. A word of advice - stay away from the so-called Harbor of Refuge at Point Judith! New Haven is fairly sheltered behind the breakwater.
Skip Sutcliffe
CD31 Oryx
CD31 Oryx
it's all about the schedule
I've been cruising between NJ and New England for 20 some years. Get a copy of Eldridge, mostly for the current charts, and a cruising guide. Plan on motoring half the time unless you have time to beat or wait at anchor. Motortack when you can. Don't waste the easterlies that come with the cold fronts. Get the foul weather gear on and go. Some of the best sailing west can be in the gray and rain when the fronts come through. We like Watch Hill, Duck Island Road, Branford Creek, The Thimbles, Ziegler's Cove, and Old Greenwich on the CT side and Mattituck, Port Jeff, Northport, Cold Spring Harbor/Oyster Bay and Manhassett Bay on the NY side. And of course if conditions are right and the crew agrees to it, an overnight sail can sure be fun and put miles under the keel. Sometimes we'll pull in when the tide turns against us, anchor eat and sleep for 6 hours and catch the next tide, even if it means getting up at first light or earlier!. Do you plan on visiting NYC? If so I would consider staying at Liberty Landing on the Jersey side and use the subway or water taxi to town. On our 36 we can count on averaging 6 knots. For the way home I'd divide the miles by my best guess average speed, decide how many hours a day I want to be underway and throw in a few extra days to hunker down if need be.
GD
GD
Last edited by Dalton on Jan 30th, '10, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
Seeing where you are from, I am going to assume that you know Buzzards Bay really well and how to work the current there. One way to avoid the SW breezes is to wait until early fall when there are a lot of NW breezes and you reach both ways. Otherwise, you will be stuck tacking a lot or sailing in a wet easterly.
Personally, I don't like motoring so I just plan on spending more time underway and make sure that I am underway as soon as there is a useable breeze.
As far as fun places to go, if you have the time it is fun to go up the mystic river to the seaport.
Personally, I don't like motoring so I just plan on spending more time underway and make sure that I am underway as soon as there is a useable breeze.
As far as fun places to go, if you have the time it is fun to go up the mystic river to the seaport.
I've made the trip a few times. Take advantage of the current when you can.
I don't have a problem with Point Judith. Greenport L.I. is a good stop.
There is a tight little anchorage at Loyd's Point CG station just before Port Jeff. I usually spend a quiet night there. The Thimbles are interesting.
Within the day from either location, you should get to City Island, N.Y.. Nice community with great restaurants. The C.I. marina no longer sells fuel but you can find close by.
Last fall we got a mooring a few days at Sheepshead Bay Yacht Club. Brooklyn.They treated us like kings.......very likable place with a friendly bar and management . Everything you need is within walking distance.
I think you can get to NYC in 3 days, certainly 4 from Mattapoisett with decent conditions. For me it's normally 4........your a good days sail ahead.
________
Lincoln Mkr Specifications
I don't have a problem with Point Judith. Greenport L.I. is a good stop.
There is a tight little anchorage at Loyd's Point CG station just before Port Jeff. I usually spend a quiet night there. The Thimbles are interesting.
Within the day from either location, you should get to City Island, N.Y.. Nice community with great restaurants. The C.I. marina no longer sells fuel but you can find close by.
Last fall we got a mooring a few days at Sheepshead Bay Yacht Club. Brooklyn.They treated us like kings.......very likable place with a friendly bar and management . Everything you need is within walking distance.
I think you can get to NYC in 3 days, certainly 4 from Mattapoisett with decent conditions. For me it's normally 4........your a good days sail ahead.
________
Lincoln Mkr Specifications
Last edited by Ron M. on Feb 11th, '11, 06:15, edited 2 times in total.
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Ma To NYC
Hi Dick
The other responders gave good info. There are two things that I might add to what was said.
Tides and Currents are VERY important when entering NYC via Hell Gate and the East River, the western end of Long Island Sound (LIS). There is plenty of info in the archives concerning this passage. Well worth reading up on.
There is not much mention of an alternate route besides that of the (LIS) Some people prefer rounding Montauk Point and follow the south shore of Long Island which brings you to NYC.
Wind velocity and direction come into play when deciding on which route to take.. If the weather is heavy for a prolonged period, you can hug either the Conn. shore or the northern shore of Long Island, whichever gives you the greatest lee protection.
There is a stretch of the north shore of LI from Orient Point to Mattituck that offers no place to duck into when it gets nasty. The same applies from Mattituck to Port Jefferson. There are plenty of safe coves from Port Jeff westward, as well as all along the RI and Conn. shore.
If you opt to round Montauk, you will have a good 5 or 6 hours sail before you can duck into a safe cove to avoid the unpredictable vagaries of the Atlantic Ocean. Once you pass the Hamptons on the westward passage, you have the choice of sailing outside in the ocean or sailing inside on the inland waterway of Great South Bay.
I'll probably bite my tongue for saying this, but if you make the trip in your 25 footer CD, I think it is safer to take the LIS route and time your Hell Gate/East River passage so as to work the tide and current to your advantage.
Have a good trip.
O J
The other responders gave good info. There are two things that I might add to what was said.
Tides and Currents are VERY important when entering NYC via Hell Gate and the East River, the western end of Long Island Sound (LIS). There is plenty of info in the archives concerning this passage. Well worth reading up on.
There is not much mention of an alternate route besides that of the (LIS) Some people prefer rounding Montauk Point and follow the south shore of Long Island which brings you to NYC.
Wind velocity and direction come into play when deciding on which route to take.. If the weather is heavy for a prolonged period, you can hug either the Conn. shore or the northern shore of Long Island, whichever gives you the greatest lee protection.
There is a stretch of the north shore of LI from Orient Point to Mattituck that offers no place to duck into when it gets nasty. The same applies from Mattituck to Port Jefferson. There are plenty of safe coves from Port Jeff westward, as well as all along the RI and Conn. shore.
If you opt to round Montauk, you will have a good 5 or 6 hours sail before you can duck into a safe cove to avoid the unpredictable vagaries of the Atlantic Ocean. Once you pass the Hamptons on the westward passage, you have the choice of sailing outside in the ocean or sailing inside on the inland waterway of Great South Bay.
I'll probably bite my tongue for saying this, but if you make the trip in your 25 footer CD, I think it is safer to take the LIS route and time your Hell Gate/East River passage so as to work the tide and current to your advantage.
Have a good trip.
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
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Carter Brey
- Posts: 709
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 12:02
- Location: 1982 Sabre 28 Mk II #532 "Delphine"
City Island, New York - Contact:
NE to NYC
Hey Dick,
I've done this a few times, and Dalton hit all the nails on the head. I would like to mention especially that Point Judith Harbor of Refuge is evil. Between the desolate aspect of the basin, the current in the channel (five knots at peak ebb or flood), the power boats and the Block Island Ferry (I had one loom down at me out of the fog once), it is truly a refuge of last resort, although to be fair the Pond is pleasant if you have time to motor up that far. There is an anchorage up there, although the wind tends to funnel up from the south and make things rolly.
Another good point he made was about motoring or motorsailing. You will do it. Between the frequent calms and a prevailing wind that is either on your nose or directly aft, it is a fact of passagemaking life on Long Island Sound, unless you have unlimited time and don't mind 15-mile days. For your return voyage, a whisker pole is a nice bit of kit for broad reaching or running. I use mine a lot. For the westbound voyage, being able to gain a few degrees closer to the wind with an inboard genoa track and the sheet run through or inboard of the stays is effective and can save you a tack.
Storms are often followed for a day by strong northwesterlies which are heaven on earth for passagemaking sailors. They typically bring with them bell-clear skies. Ride them as far as they will take you.
Fog is common as far west as, say, Guilford. I've encountered it in Oyster Bay and, once, even at City Island, so be prepared.
The stopovers he mentions are all nice, and Mattituck is especially lovely, although it gets tight. There's a cool restaurant (The Old Mill) halfway up the inlet, on the right. You can actually tie up to the dock while you dine. If you arrive or depart at night, you can shine a spotlight on the private channel marker buoys; they all have reflective tape and light up like Christmas trees.
I would also mention the Connecticut River, which is so beautiful that it's worth exploring at the price of westing. It's like something out of a Victorian bucolic fantasy. Well, the I-95 bridge and the RR bridge do introduce a note of unwelcome modernity, but you can squint and pretend they aren't there. I highly recommend calling ahead for a guest mooring at the Old Lyme Marina, tucked behind a little island just north of the highway bridge. They have impeccable facilities and from the dinghy dock it's a 15-minute walk to town and an excellent restaurant called Boom.
From Old Saybrook at the River's mouth it's an easy day sail to Charles Island, off of Milford. With your 4' draft you can work right up into the northeast corner of the island for protection from the souhtwesterlies. It's very peaceful there, and 40 nm from the East River. In the morning it's amusing to fetch your binoculars and watch the fishermen standing in their waders in a straight line from the shore to the island. They seem to be performing an old testament miracle but are merely defining the barely-submerged sand spit for you.
I cannot comment on OJ's suggestion of an outer passage, as it is something I've often contemplated but never tried, since the Sound is so much fun and so varied; however, I encourage you to make the passage through the Race in one direction and through Fishers Island Sound and Watch Hill Passage in the other, for the different experience. Beware lobster trap floats in Fishers Island Sound. Oh, that reminds me of two other wonderful anchorages not mentioned: East and West Harbors in Fishers Island Sound. If you're in the mood for real isolation, East Harbor, tiny and without shore access, is terrific. The bottom is sticky black mud (like much of LIS) and very secure.
Third Beach, near the mouth of the Sakonnet River, is another handy stop-off, depending on your progress. You can dinghy to the beach there, and there's reasonable (but not great) protection from southwesterlies. It's quite broad and there's room for lots of boats. The bottom is sand and eel grass.
Block Island, of course, is right there as well. I was lucky enough to get a town mooring once, although I have to say that in all my subsequent visits I've anchored over in the NE corner, near the dinghy beach, and had no problem with holding. I was happy to save the $60 nightly fee. The row over to the south end for restaurants or supplies did not kill me, so I suppose it made me stronger. The last time I was there, my son and I rented bikes and circumnavigated the entire island, enjoying the wonderful views out to sea. The beach on the Atlantic side, by the way, is spectacular if numbingly cold. There's free pumpout and Aldo's bakery launch in the morning. Nice to have a fresh muffin in the cockpit with your coffee.
Last mention: Huntington Harbor. No anchorages that I know of, but you can take a guest mooring at the yacht club. Really nice with views of osprey nests on the way in (as in Mattituck). You can take a cab into town (it's a long walk) and there are marine chandleries along the way, which I found handy when I needed to repair a navigation light. The mouth of the harbor is about four hours from the East River with a fair wind.
I'll shut up, now.
Cordially,
Carter Brey
P.S. contact me when you know when you might be passing by City Island; it's possible my boat will be gone and in that case you can use my mooring.
I've done this a few times, and Dalton hit all the nails on the head. I would like to mention especially that Point Judith Harbor of Refuge is evil. Between the desolate aspect of the basin, the current in the channel (five knots at peak ebb or flood), the power boats and the Block Island Ferry (I had one loom down at me out of the fog once), it is truly a refuge of last resort, although to be fair the Pond is pleasant if you have time to motor up that far. There is an anchorage up there, although the wind tends to funnel up from the south and make things rolly.
Another good point he made was about motoring or motorsailing. You will do it. Between the frequent calms and a prevailing wind that is either on your nose or directly aft, it is a fact of passagemaking life on Long Island Sound, unless you have unlimited time and don't mind 15-mile days. For your return voyage, a whisker pole is a nice bit of kit for broad reaching or running. I use mine a lot. For the westbound voyage, being able to gain a few degrees closer to the wind with an inboard genoa track and the sheet run through or inboard of the stays is effective and can save you a tack.
Storms are often followed for a day by strong northwesterlies which are heaven on earth for passagemaking sailors. They typically bring with them bell-clear skies. Ride them as far as they will take you.
Fog is common as far west as, say, Guilford. I've encountered it in Oyster Bay and, once, even at City Island, so be prepared.
The stopovers he mentions are all nice, and Mattituck is especially lovely, although it gets tight. There's a cool restaurant (The Old Mill) halfway up the inlet, on the right. You can actually tie up to the dock while you dine. If you arrive or depart at night, you can shine a spotlight on the private channel marker buoys; they all have reflective tape and light up like Christmas trees.
I would also mention the Connecticut River, which is so beautiful that it's worth exploring at the price of westing. It's like something out of a Victorian bucolic fantasy. Well, the I-95 bridge and the RR bridge do introduce a note of unwelcome modernity, but you can squint and pretend they aren't there. I highly recommend calling ahead for a guest mooring at the Old Lyme Marina, tucked behind a little island just north of the highway bridge. They have impeccable facilities and from the dinghy dock it's a 15-minute walk to town and an excellent restaurant called Boom.
From Old Saybrook at the River's mouth it's an easy day sail to Charles Island, off of Milford. With your 4' draft you can work right up into the northeast corner of the island for protection from the souhtwesterlies. It's very peaceful there, and 40 nm from the East River. In the morning it's amusing to fetch your binoculars and watch the fishermen standing in their waders in a straight line from the shore to the island. They seem to be performing an old testament miracle but are merely defining the barely-submerged sand spit for you.
I cannot comment on OJ's suggestion of an outer passage, as it is something I've often contemplated but never tried, since the Sound is so much fun and so varied; however, I encourage you to make the passage through the Race in one direction and through Fishers Island Sound and Watch Hill Passage in the other, for the different experience. Beware lobster trap floats in Fishers Island Sound. Oh, that reminds me of two other wonderful anchorages not mentioned: East and West Harbors in Fishers Island Sound. If you're in the mood for real isolation, East Harbor, tiny and without shore access, is terrific. The bottom is sticky black mud (like much of LIS) and very secure.
Third Beach, near the mouth of the Sakonnet River, is another handy stop-off, depending on your progress. You can dinghy to the beach there, and there's reasonable (but not great) protection from southwesterlies. It's quite broad and there's room for lots of boats. The bottom is sand and eel grass.
Block Island, of course, is right there as well. I was lucky enough to get a town mooring once, although I have to say that in all my subsequent visits I've anchored over in the NE corner, near the dinghy beach, and had no problem with holding. I was happy to save the $60 nightly fee. The row over to the south end for restaurants or supplies did not kill me, so I suppose it made me stronger. The last time I was there, my son and I rented bikes and circumnavigated the entire island, enjoying the wonderful views out to sea. The beach on the Atlantic side, by the way, is spectacular if numbingly cold. There's free pumpout and Aldo's bakery launch in the morning. Nice to have a fresh muffin in the cockpit with your coffee.
Last mention: Huntington Harbor. No anchorages that I know of, but you can take a guest mooring at the yacht club. Really nice with views of osprey nests on the way in (as in Mattituck). You can take a cab into town (it's a long walk) and there are marine chandleries along the way, which I found handy when I needed to repair a navigation light. The mouth of the harbor is about four hours from the East River with a fair wind.
I'll shut up, now.
Cordially,
Carter Brey
P.S. contact me when you know when you might be passing by City Island; it's possible my boat will be gone and in that case you can use my mooring.
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Joe Montana
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Feb 20th, '05, 14:17
- Location: Ty DS "First Light" Essex, CT
Member 781
Another Harbor of Refuge
It isn't well known, but North Cove in Old Saybrook very near the mouth of the Connecticut River is also a harbor of refuge. The channel in is very well marked, and has just been dredged. Once in the mooring field, stay left/south of the channel. Yellow ribbons mark moorings that can be picked up overnight without charge, but be aware that if you use the North Cove Yacht Club launch to go ashore, you will be charged for the mooring. If you must get ashore, e.g. to walk a dog, there is a tiny public dinghy dock for transients just east of the yacht club. The substantial downtown shopping district of Old Saybrook is a 10-15 minute walk from there.
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Neil Gordon
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
- Contact:
Re: Implied
I didn't realize it when I accepted the appointment, but yes, it comes with a free flag!!!Dick Kobayashi wrote:Fleet Captain Neil (do you get a special burgee or something), We have smart members they will infer that tips on water movement are included in my question. You did. btw all the best in your new role. I have been inactive in 2009 but will be more active in 2010 - some personal issues arose in 09 - gone in 10. Best.
Glad to hear that your '09 issues are behind you. Thanks for volunteering to help in '10! We'll take you up on that.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
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Dick Barthel
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:29
- Location: Dream Weaver, CD25D, Noank, CT
I hope you'll pass along your experience
Dick,
Some really great posts so I don't have much to add but if you're not in a rush and you like a quiet natural harbor you might sail from Fishers Island/Race to Coceles Harbor, Shelter Island. Its not much of a detour, only a morning sail from West Harbor on Fishers Island and you're still heading west. Next morning about 7 miles NE miles puts you at Plum Gut and you're on you're way to NYC again.
I hope you'll let us know how it goes.
Dick
Some really great posts so I don't have much to add but if you're not in a rush and you like a quiet natural harbor you might sail from Fishers Island/Race to Coceles Harbor, Shelter Island. Its not much of a detour, only a morning sail from West Harbor on Fishers Island and you're still heading west. Next morning about 7 miles NE miles puts you at Plum Gut and you're on you're way to NYC again.
I hope you'll let us know how it goes.
Dick
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Dick Kobayashi
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '05, 16:31
- Location: Former owner of 3 CDs, most recently Susan B, a 25D
Thanks All
Thanks all. This is February in New England 10F last night, so it's the time to plan and plot and scheme. It is quite possible that I will have a lot of potential sailing time available during the summer and early fall so I want to plan now to to get beyond the 2-3 day sail in local waters which is traditional. I like the idea of going south/west - easier to get back and that water in the Gulf of Maine is COLD. As always the level of detail and quality of comment on this Board characterizes the knowledge and generosity of spirit of CDOA members. Thanks a lot.
PS - If this trip comes off I will definitely post a report or sequence of them.
PS - If this trip comes off I will definitely post a report or sequence of them.
Dick K
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
LIS
Hi, Dick:
It might be February but it was -10ºF last night here in middle NYS. But lest I sound like I'm complaining, I should defer to OJ to get the bragging rights, I'm not. I'm getting ready for the Pro Bowl and have already hit the freezer by choice!
The cold fronts coming from our northern neighbor hit Oswego first and warm up before the frigidair gets here.
When I had the distinct pleasure of being a guest aboard Cathy Monaghan and Bruce Halley's CD32 on a cruise toward LIS, we were delayed getting to our night's destination due to an engine issue. We got to City Island late and by the time we finished cleaning up, it was 11:00 at night and the Harlem YC (on the west side of City Island about 3/4's of the way up) was beginning to close up shop. We were apparently too late for dinner, although the beer was filling to be sure. When I told the waitress that we were late getting there do to an boating problem, she said to me "We're closing the kitchen but wait, I'll go talk the the chef." She came back and told us "The Kitchen's ours!. Anything you like. We'll stay open for you guys."
That was my first experience in New York City! I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciated that place. You have to stay in that harbor to the west of City Island and drop in to Harlem YC. I don't mean to disparage the east side. Not at all. I just haven't been there yet. I would give my eye teeth to sail back and enjoy the camaraderie of the area. I hope you visit there on your trip.
Of course the company that I was with helped with the pleasure aspect.
It might be February but it was -10ºF last night here in middle NYS. But lest I sound like I'm complaining, I should defer to OJ to get the bragging rights, I'm not. I'm getting ready for the Pro Bowl and have already hit the freezer by choice!
The cold fronts coming from our northern neighbor hit Oswego first and warm up before the frigidair gets here. When I had the distinct pleasure of being a guest aboard Cathy Monaghan and Bruce Halley's CD32 on a cruise toward LIS, we were delayed getting to our night's destination due to an engine issue. We got to City Island late and by the time we finished cleaning up, it was 11:00 at night and the Harlem YC (on the west side of City Island about 3/4's of the way up) was beginning to close up shop. We were apparently too late for dinner, although the beer was filling to be sure. When I told the waitress that we were late getting there do to an boating problem, she said to me "We're closing the kitchen but wait, I'll go talk the the chef." She came back and told us "The Kitchen's ours!. Anything you like. We'll stay open for you guys."
That was my first experience in New York City! I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciated that place. You have to stay in that harbor to the west of City Island and drop in to Harlem YC. I don't mean to disparage the east side. Not at all. I just haven't been there yet. I would give my eye teeth to sail back and enjoy the camaraderie of the area. I hope you visit there on your trip.
Of course the company that I was with helped with the pleasure aspect.