The new age for small sailboat manufacturers?

[sprocket80]

New to the list and wanted to ask for opinions and comments.

There is a small (mom and pop small) manufacturer still making trailer-able sailboats. I am still an avid participant on the owner's bulletin board and do not want to name the company. Here is the subject for opinions:

This manufacturer makes a trailer-able 22 foot sailboat of exceptional quality with many unique parts and features. This boat (and maker), has a fanatical following...because of the quality and uniqueness of the boat and because you can contact him directly with any question, problem or concern. This manufacturer participates in/on the owners bulletin boards as well. He has posted his grumblings for months now about inquiring buyers getting sticker shock and walking away. He usually sends these folks to the owner's list to search for used boats. Also, troubling to him is having to field calls for parts or questions from people who buy their boats aftermarket from private owners. Many, he turns away or also refers to the owners list because in his words "I do not make money by selling parts, and why should I help someone who has never put one dime in my pocket?" Additionally, he has implied threats to sue anyone that makes replacement parts and sells them on the owner's list bulletin board.

His proposed solution is to give any new or re-manufactured boat buyer a "Certificate of Ownership." Any person who sells his boat aftermarket by posting on the "owners" list will send him a 5% "Loyalty/Royalty fee" In return they will receive a certificate to pass on to the buyer. Possession of a Certificate entitles one to insider status for parts, service and answers.

This has angered quite a few on the owners list. It has angered me to the point of abandoning my project boat and looking to move over to a CD Typhoon.

I understand these are tough times, especially for the maker of a luxury item like a sailboat but, do current financial times dictate this new business model, or am I just howling at the moon?

[Troy Scott]

This sounds like "burnout" to me. He probably needs a vacation.

[Russell]

It seems obnoxious to refuse to sell parts to people who bought boats second hand, and even more obnoxious to request a royalty fee from owners who sell their boats. If he doesnt make money on selling parts, he should raise the price of his parts.

[sprocket80]

Russell,

I would agree. Unfortunately, this maker has been making only one boat; and for so long that many of the original vendors/suppliers he got his "unique" parts from have done away with the tooling or gone out of business. Examples would be--his mast extrusion die was done away with by the vendor, his pintles are custom and no longer made, nor are the stern rail fittings and he has been buying up used boats for parts and/or resale.

I can understand this to a degree because he has a finite supply of parts which he needs to reserve for new boats, but it is just the attitude of the whole affair. If He refuses to sell me a custom fitting, and I have someone weld these stainless fittings up, I am going to have a few more made to sell and try to offset my costs. I don't need him implying he wants to sue me for patent on intellectual property rights infringement...especially when he does not own these rights.

In my opinion, he should not even participate in the owner's group. His declarations have split the group nearly in half. The half who know the business end of a wrench or varnish brush vs the guys (and gals) who have more money than skills.

[minke]

What this sounds like is an entrepreneur who can produce a fine product (and everything that goes into producing it) but who just doesn't have it when it comes to managing the business.

[Jeff and Sarah]

So if I understand you correctly, this builder is buying used boats that he built, then strips them for parts to build new boats that he then sells again. Throughout all this, he doesn't support second-hand owners, and wants to tax those who purchased new but have decided to sell. Crazy. Absolutely crazy.
Sounds like this guy should just give up and find a new business.

[sprocket80]

Jeff,

What he does is buys back his own boats. this is actually part of his new boat guarantee. He buys back boats as old as 1984s (IIRC). Most boats he buys back sight unseen. The newer ones he completely refurbishes to like new condition and re-sells with a new boat warranty. The ones not worth repairing/rebuilding, he takes some of the parts. His philosophy, is this case, is that he is narrowing the supply field and increasing the chances for a new or rebuilt craft sale.

In this economy, the rebuilt boats are less than half the cost of a new one, and this is what has been keeping him solvent. In his opinion, most of the PO sales were referred to the owner's list by him, so he has invested his time and deserves to be compensated. What I think is not fit for print.



Minke,
This guy has been building and selling the same boay since the late 60's, has never advertised,--sells boats by word-of-mouth. But he does set up at most of the bigger sailboat shows--Annapolis, St Pete, Chicago, etc. so he has created a niche. I guess he is getting desperate.

[The Patriot]

... What he does is buys back his own boats ... What I think is not fit for print ... I guess he is getting desperate ...

I must be missing a very fundamental point in this discussion. If one or more customers are unhappy with how this individual conducts his business, shouldn't they simply go elsewhere (as in free market capitalism)?

[Neil Gordon]

I must be missing a very fundamental point in this discussion. If one or more customers are unhappy with how this individual conducts his business, shouldn't they simply go elsewhere (as in free market capitalism)?

They will go elsewhere but there's a significant frustration factor involved.

The guy has a great product with a strong customer base. He also has business practices that hold customers at bay even as they are attracted to his product. Some customers will buy anyway and some will go elsewhere. The frustration seems to come primarily from the perception that the customer service flaws are hurting BOTH the customer's overall experience and the manufacturer's profit.

[The Patriot]

I must be missing a very fundamental point in this discussion. If one or more customers are unhappy with how this individual conducts his business, shouldn't they simply go elsewhere (as in free market capitalism)?

... The frustration seems to come primarily from the perception that the customer service flaws are hurting BOTH the customer's overall experience and the manufacturer's profit.

I don't remember that the OP identified the manufacturer so the quality of his product and the state of mind of the customer base cannot be confirmed or even determined with any certainty. In any case it is not to my knowledge a principle of modern marketing that customers must have the welfare and profitability of business owners foremost on their minds, even though in the long run that may turn out to be important to their satisfaction. Rather it is usually the case that in an arms length transaction those buyers who do not approve of certain business practices will take their business elsewhere, especially with respect to luxury products.

In short, if ya can't stand the heat ...

[henry hey]

I am guessing that this is the boat.

h

[Dick Barthel]

I was thinking the same thing Henry. I looked into them before discovering Cape Dorys. It's to bad that the idea of remanufacturing was not embraced by Mr V. I would have signed up for a like-new 25D in a heartbeat. I'm guessing it would have been cheaper than my renewal of Dream Weaver has been.

The Rhodes are great boats for what they are and they certainly have a very loyal following. I personally just never liked the look and the idea of my head popping out while using the head. As I recall they are touted as uncapsizable which seems like a bit of stretch. I'd rather take my chances in a Typhoon.

Dick

[henry hey]

I have a friend who owns one. They certainly seem to be full-featured boats. I have yet to take a spin with him. Perhaps I will bother him for a ride. One thing I did notice, however, is that the boat lists pretty substantially at the mooring with the prescribed outboard attached. I would believe that the outboard is too heavy for the purposes of this boat.

-Henry

[Joe Myerson]

Dick and Henry,

I agree with your guess that this manufacturer may be the builder of the Rhodes. I looked long and hard at his boat at the Annapolis Sailboat Show three or four years ago. In a pre-Cape Dory life, I once owned an O'Day Mariner, which uses the same hull as the Rhodes 19.

The Mariner is now being built in Maine, but I don't think this is the same builder. The boat in question is, I believe, being constructed somewhere south of the Mason-Dixon line.

--Joe

[henry hey]

Actually the Rhodes of which I speak has nothing to do with O'day (Rhodes 19, Rhodes Mariner etc).

I had a 1967 mariner 19. It was a great little centerboard boat.

http://www.usmariner.org/

Now Stuart marine bought the molds for that O'day boat and are making their own Rhodes 19.

http://www.stuartmarine.net/


The company of which we speak is completely different. They make a 22' boat with all the fixings and mast-furling main.

http://www.rhodes22.com/