A large project begins, cabin sole replacement

[Russell]

All my materials arrived yesterday. Two sheets of 1" plywood and some tounge and groove teak and maple strips (http://www.maritimewoodproducts.com/int ... oring.html very handy product).

I decided to do the job in sections, 1st the area outside the head and into the v-berth, then the saloon and finally the galley. So yesterday I started with the forward section. I had some delamination of the veneer up there which was the primary decider in starting this project in the first place. Well, once I went to pull it up, I found that the drop in liner that was under the v-berth and the head actually is much larger then I thought, the entire space from the mast forward is one big drop in liner. The floor itsself is glued down to this liner and is only about 1/2" plywood (as opposed to the 1" plywood for the rest of the floor). This explained the rot issue! There was no way for moisture to escape or the wood to breath up there when sitting on a solid plastic floor.

So in putting down a new floor I am thinking of ways to prevent this issue. My idea is to drill holes in the liner, and lay down 1/8" strips perpendicular to the flooring then lay the flooring on top of that, creating a small pocket of air between the flooring and the liner with escape holes to allow that moisture to escape into the bilge

[bottomscraper]

Russell,

We would love to see pictures.

[Russell]

Russell,

We would love to see pictures.

Well, I am still in destruction mode, so not the prettist of pictures. Since its semi-rotted plywood glued and screwed to fibreglass floor, the only removal method is hammer and chisel, a real mess. In this photo though you can clearly see the fibreglass floor created by the liner (bottom left).

[bottomscraper]

[
Well, I am still in destruction mode, so not the prettist of pictures.

Ahh but the ugly pictures make the finished pictures look that much better! Getting a look at the stuff that is normally hidden is a real plus.

Thanks!

[Russell]

I finished removing the floor in the v-berth/head area.

I was suprised at the amount of uncured glue I found bonding the floor to the sole. There appears to be two glues used, one being a very hard curing epoxy that reminds me of marine tex, greyish in color and brittle plastic, primarily used only in one section, I suspect it was more of a filler to level things. The other glue is not so grey but more brown, but considering it was uncured and mixed with rotted wood then who knows its origonal color.

After removing the floor all the way back to where the liner ends, I decided to cut a hole through the liner to check its integrity, considering the floor was rotted and there were screws going from the floor into the liner. Its built like decks normally are, its a balsa core between two layers of fibreglass. The core was dry and in great shape. This also gave me the first view of how much space is actually under the floor here. As I suspected, it is a fair amount! When the new floor goes down I am planning to add two access spots in this area, one just starboard of the mast, and one just forward of the head in the v-berth. This will not only give some extra storage space, but give access to the hull that never existed before. The area I cut as a test was right next to the mast and gave me my first real look at the mast step, I was happy to see it looks terrific (even if a bit dusty), in the future I will have access to clean here and have terrific access to mast wiring.

Also worth noting is that the bulkheads sit on the liner, they do not go down to the hull!! I did not expect this at all. I suspect under the liner is a seperate bulkhead that the liner sits on. I think this is good knowledge to have! When I cut the hole in the v-berth area sole through the liner and inspect what is under there I will certainly report on it.

Ok, so more photos:


The area under the v-berth, flooring removed, brown stuff is cured glue(uncured stuff is removed), grey stuff is the more plasticy glue, mainly around the edges. I will have to use the grinder to remove all of this.



Area outside of head, note hole cut in floor to inspect liner core as well as inspect mast step. When I install the new floor the hole will be twice as big with a proper hatch. Also note where liner ends, from there aft the floor is all solid 1" plywood and no liner.


Close up of hole in liner to see the coring and makeup of the liner.




Jasper the cat needed to inspect the area as well....

[Bill Goldsmith]

Russell,

I bet a lot of us will be watching your progress. Please keep the pix coming. The plywood/veneer soles on our CDs are aging and some are surely aging better than others. I had a couple of delaminated areas that I was able to re-glue, but the idea of a complete replacement with solid wood has a very traditional. yacht-like appeal for future replacement, perhaps in a few years.

I was wondering how you came to decide on a solid sole vs. replacing with new teak and holly ply.

Are there any drawbacks to going with solid wood? Issues such as expansion and contraction come to mind. Is there a reason why so many quality yacht builders have used plywood veneer floors rather than solid wood, aside from pure cost/labor savings?

What are you thinking about finishing the floor with?

You mentioned that you were replacing the sole in sections. Did you order the floor in pre-made (i.e. glued up) sections, as the Maritime Wood people offer, or are you laying it plank-by-plank? The Maritime Wood people seem very flexible and appear to be willing to work with anyone from OEM production to individuals repairing and replacing their own.

Thanks again for sharing your progress with us.

[Bill Goldsmith]

When I replaced my seacock backing plates and had to scrape off all the old sealant, I found the best tool was an angle grinder fitted with a very stiff wire brush. This took off all the old sealant, and only roughed the surface of the glass. A grinding wheel might actually damage the fiberglass.

[Russell]

Hi Bill,

I am not actually doing a fully solid sole. I am putting down ply first, a tad thinner then the origonal ply, then laying 3/8" solid wood over that. Solid wood all the way through would be absurdly expensive, I think this is a nice in between approach which offers all the advantages of fully solid wood while cutting down on cost and labor a bit.

The primary reason for going with a solid wood rather then veneer is that I have always been annoyed that it is practically impossible to refinish a veneer, take a sander to it and bam, its gone. So all those dings in the floor from over the years you just have to live with. I am at a lose as to why high end builders still use veneers on soles, even hinkley does, for most interior furnature it seems fine to me, but the abuse a sole gets veneer just seems inappropriate. 3/8" solid wood offers flexability in this area. I did not pre order pre cut floors. I ordered 2 sheets of marine ply from a local outfit for the base floor, then from Maritime Wood I ordered the tonge and groove teak and holly(maple), which just makes the job a tad easier, since I live aboard full time and dont have a garage to keep a table saw, router table and planer in. I can lay these down and cut easily with a router and jig saw to fit, plank by plank.

The yard I am currently at has a wood worker who spent 20 years building interiors on high end mega yachts, he has been amazingly friendly and helpful with advice, which makes an amature like myself feel a lot more confident digging into a project like this.

I am still deciding on final finish for the floor. Ultimate Sole is certainly attractive and practical, but expensive. I honestly think that Ultimate Sole is simply gymnasium floor finish with a marine label slapped onto it, so I am looking into gymnasium floor finishes, but the quantity of that one has to buy (by the gallon or 5 gallon) perhaps might make Ultimate Sole still cheaper in the end.

I will sure to keep the photos coming as I progress, I know I have been intensely curious since I owned the boat about the spaces under the floor that we cannot access so I will be sure to share what I find.

[Russell]

When I replaced my seacock backing plates and had to scrape off all the old sealant, I found the best tool was an angle grinder fitted with a very stiff wire brush. This took off all the old sealant, and only roughed the surface of the glass. A grinding wheel might actually damage the fiberglass.

I was not planning to use a grinding wheel, my thought was to gently use a flap disc, though that would certainly grind off some fibreglass too and potentially lead to some fairing issues when it comes time to lay down the new floor. I had not considered a wire brush, I have seen them in the angle grinder accessory section though, I will pick one up and give it a try, if it can remove old glue without removing fibreglass then it would be perfect.

[Carter Brey]

http://www.geocities.com/earlylight160b ... nSole.html

[Russell]

Thanks for that link Carter, a similar project indeed.

My project is delayed at the moment, needing the 1/2" ply in the forward linered section was unexpected so I am waiting for that to be delivered while I am off delivering a boat to NYC. Any chance you have some performances coming up about 7 days from now while I am in NYC Carter?

[Carter Brey]

Thanks for that link Carter, a similar project indeed.

My project is delayed at the moment, needing the 1/2" ply in the forward linered section was unexpected so I am waiting for that to be delivered while I am off delivering a boat to NYC. Any chance you have some performances coming up about 7 days from now while I am in NYC Carter?

Russell,

Yes, indeed: the NY Philharmonic will be playing in Central Park exactly a week from tonight. Let me know if you'd like to come hear the concert and get together afterward. It would be a pleasure to meet you and take you sailing.

Carter

[Russell]

Thanks for that link Carter, a similar project indeed.

My project is delayed at the moment, needing the 1/2" ply in the forward linered section was unexpected so I am waiting for that to be delivered while I am off delivering a boat to NYC. Any chance you have some performances coming up about 7 days from now while I am in NYC Carter?

Russell,

Yes, indeed: the NY Philharmonic will be playing in Central Park exactly a week from tonight. Let me know if you'd like to come hear the concert and get together afterward. It would be a pleasure to meet you and take you sailing.

Carter

Concert in central park sounds perfect! Should be able to make it by Friday if weather cooperates. I will certainly let you know, always good to meet another CD person (even if they dont own a CD anymore!). Plus good music, well, right up my alley.

[Tom Keevil]

Russel, how's this project going? We need to do this as well, so are interested to hear how it works out. Thanks.

[Russell]

Russel, how's this project going? We need to do this as well, so are interested to hear how it works out. Thanks.

Other things got in the way and so far the project has been on hold, looking forward to getting back to it soon though as its rather unsightly to look at a partially torn up floor all the time.