I have been reading the CDSOA board archives and they have been a great source of information, but I still have some clarifying questions. Note, I sail in and around Hingham MA and have been using a Mercury 8HP 2 stroke but I am looking to replace it with a 4 stroke Mercury, Tohatsu or Honda with an alternator.
Looking at the motors that will fit the CD25 well it appears that I have narrowed it down to the Mercury 6HP or Tohatsu 6HP 4 strokes. However, checking the boards I wanted to clarify some things:
- Have people had issues servicing the Tohatsu motors in Massachusetts? There seem to be a lot more Mercury dealers.
- Does the Tohatsu really fit in the well without modifying the mount? It sounds like one person had issues with cowl rubbing the cover...
- I heard the 6HP Tohatsu is enough HP for a CD25 but it sounds like the Mercury may not be enough? Looking at the specs they seem the same...
- I am used to an 8HP two stroke and I am hearing that 4 stroke motors provide less thrust than the two stroke motors... not sure why that would be
- I liked the idea of buying a Honda but they appear to only have expensive 8HP 4 strokes "classics" and some owners didnt recommend those. Are there other Hondas or other brands that I should consider?
My biggest concern is spending the cash on one of these and finding out that there isnt enough power, doesnt fit very well or isnt reliable... Any help would be greatly appreciated, and the research on the off season during the snow at least keeps me thinking of sailing!
Regards,
Kevin
CD25 Outboard questions Mercury vs Tohatsu
Moderator: Jim Walsh
CD25 Outboard questions Mercury vs Tohatsu
"Life begins at 2 knots."
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1530
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Outboard for a CD 25
Kevin,
I believe that in this application, the most important consideration is the pitch of the prop.
We have an 8 hp Honda, and it gets to ~90% of hull speed
at less than half throttle in the river. Now punching head on into 4' seas is an entirely different story indeed. The prop is 9&1/2" dia. X 8&5/8ths pitch.
The pitch is way to great for this cruising hull, and I long for a 6" or7"
pitch which Honda does not supply.
IMHO
Dick
I believe that in this application, the most important consideration is the pitch of the prop.
We have an 8 hp Honda, and it gets to ~90% of hull speed
at less than half throttle in the river. Now punching head on into 4' seas is an entirely different story indeed. The prop is 9&1/2" dia. X 8&5/8ths pitch.
The pitch is way to great for this cruising hull, and I long for a 6" or7"
pitch which Honda does not supply.
IMHO
Dick
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SurryMark
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Nov 18th, '08, 10:04
- Location: Formerly CD27Y, Tula. Now Luders Sea Sprite 34
- Contact:
tohatsu here
I have a brand new Tohatsu 6 with the extra long 25" shaft: never used, oil never put in it, right out of the box, all warranties in place. I bought it for another boat, before I got my 27, and may want to sell it, if you have any interest. I was told that the Tohatsu and Nissan are exactly the same except for the name plates. I got it based on recommendations around here, and because of the light weight. If I sell it I'll get another Tohatsu, short shaft, for a dinghy. If I don't sell it I may mount a bracket on the transom as emergency power, though I almost hate to do that to the 27.
cd 25 outboard
I sent you a pm. You can borrow my 6 tohatsu to see if it's a nice fit. Pete
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henry hey
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Oct 14th, '06, 00:48
- Location: Former owner: CD25 - 'Homeward Bound' hull #711. Now sailing with C. Brey aboard Sabre 28 Delphine
outboard
There are a few considerations for an outboard in a CD25.
Given that your mounting bracket has not been modified, you will want a long shaft outboard that has enough power to keep your boat moving at good speed AGAINST wind and current -- long shaft so that if you are bucking in some swells, your engine is not coming out of the water much. Mine is a long shaft and in a substantial see, it still gets some 'air time.'
I am happy to have a tohatsu 8hp (with charging component) in my cd25.
It gives me good positive movement against the most foul of tides/waves/wind.
I am also quite thankful that my outboard is able to rotate some on it's mount.
I understand that some of the outboards are so large that they cant pivot. That seems like it could be ok at first thought, but since the cd25 (like all cds) is a full keel. . she doesn't like to turn at low speeds and hates to turn in reverse.
This is where pivot really pays off.
I just reach back there and swing the motor over.
My 2c
h
Given that your mounting bracket has not been modified, you will want a long shaft outboard that has enough power to keep your boat moving at good speed AGAINST wind and current -- long shaft so that if you are bucking in some swells, your engine is not coming out of the water much. Mine is a long shaft and in a substantial see, it still gets some 'air time.'
I am happy to have a tohatsu 8hp (with charging component) in my cd25.
It gives me good positive movement against the most foul of tides/waves/wind.
I am also quite thankful that my outboard is able to rotate some on it's mount.
I understand that some of the outboards are so large that they cant pivot. That seems like it could be ok at first thought, but since the cd25 (like all cds) is a full keel. . she doesn't like to turn at low speeds and hates to turn in reverse.
This is where pivot really pays off.
I just reach back there and swing the motor over.
My 2c
h
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Lee Kaufman
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Apr 22nd, '05, 12:31
- Location: CD25 #12 "Morning Star"
alternator
After some initial issues with my Nissan 6hp outboard (there was a wire pinched under the flywheel from the factory), I have been very satisfied. It is a little more difficult to start than some I have used but, it performs well.
When considering an alternator, find out what you can expect. I thought that it would recharge my battery from the drain of standby VHF, depth sounder and handheld GPS as I motored 2 hours each time I go out. It won't. I can actually see very little gain to the battery from the alternator. After numerous calls to Nissan tech support I am assured it is functioning properly. Apparently the intention is to provide enough power to operate running lights while motoring. I would not invest in an alternator again. For less money you can buy a charger and recharge the battery occasionally.
When considering an alternator, find out what you can expect. I thought that it would recharge my battery from the drain of standby VHF, depth sounder and handheld GPS as I motored 2 hours each time I go out. It won't. I can actually see very little gain to the battery from the alternator. After numerous calls to Nissan tech support I am assured it is functioning properly. Apparently the intention is to provide enough power to operate running lights while motoring. I would not invest in an alternator again. For less money you can buy a charger and recharge the battery occasionally.
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering, "What the
hell happened?"
hell happened?"
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winthrop fisher
- Posts: 837
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 17:52
- Location: Typhoon Wk 75 "Easy Rider" &
cd 22 "Easy Rider Sr" 84
hey...
i have sold nissan and tohatsu motors with the key start and people love it...
first honda and nissan and tohatsu motors are the better motors around and have less repairs in the long run...
nissan and tohatsu out boards are the same and have been for the last three years...
4 stroke has more power and runs quieter then the 2 stroke...
no more oil in the gas is good...
but the dimensions on the 4 stroke are larger, so go smaller in hp...
you do need a 25" shaft, thats what i have on both boats, but you have to order that extra shaft...
get the key start, its extra as well...
some thing else that the goverment is trying to pass a law to get all two strokes out of the u.s. waters...
that's has been going on for the last four years or more...
winthrop
i have sold nissan and tohatsu motors with the key start and people love it...
first honda and nissan and tohatsu motors are the better motors around and have less repairs in the long run...
nissan and tohatsu out boards are the same and have been for the last three years...
4 stroke has more power and runs quieter then the 2 stroke...
no more oil in the gas is good...
but the dimensions on the 4 stroke are larger, so go smaller in hp...
you do need a 25" shaft, thats what i have on both boats, but you have to order that extra shaft...
get the key start, its extra as well...
some thing else that the goverment is trying to pass a law to get all two strokes out of the u.s. waters...
that's has been going on for the last four years or more...
winthrop
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crazywilbur
- Posts: 39
- Joined: May 6th, '05, 08:08
- Location: cape dory 25 trailer
honda 8 hp to fit cd25
Will the honda 2006 8 hp fit my well? Do I have to move the bracket
dockmaster at fhyc
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Maine Sail
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Feb 8th, '06, 18:30
- Location: Canadian Sailcraft 36T
First off
Tohatsu is building both the Mercury and Nissan motors. Below about 18hp tehy build the Merc's and they build all the Nissan's. There is no difference between Nissan and Tohatsu otehr than decals. The Mercury, Nissan & Tohatsu's roll off the same exact assembly line.
Honda is Honda, Suzuki is Suzuki (used to build the smaller OMC's)..
A Tohatsu is as reliable as a Mercury because it is a Mercury. When you get to the 8hp Merc specs an on the throttle shifter which Tohatsu & Nissan do not offer and it makes the Merc "slightly" different. Other than that it is paint and decals.
Go ahead pull off the lids and you'll see they are identical. Merc tries to tweak their weight specs to make it appear they are not Tohatsu's but don't be fooled..
All the motors today are very reliable. Suzuki might be another one to consider if you have a dealer..
Honda is Honda, Suzuki is Suzuki (used to build the smaller OMC's)..
A Tohatsu is as reliable as a Mercury because it is a Mercury. When you get to the 8hp Merc specs an on the throttle shifter which Tohatsu & Nissan do not offer and it makes the Merc "slightly" different. Other than that it is paint and decals.
Go ahead pull off the lids and you'll see they are identical. Merc tries to tweak their weight specs to make it appear they are not Tohatsu's but don't be fooled..
All the motors today are very reliable. Suzuki might be another one to consider if you have a dealer..
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SurryMark
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Nov 18th, '08, 10:04
- Location: Formerly CD27Y, Tula. Now Luders Sea Sprite 34
- Contact:
6hp tohatsu
I have a 6 hp Tohatsu 4-stroke, extra long (25") shaft, with battery charger, that I bought for a smaller boat, before I decided on the CD27. It's available, if anybody is interested. Brand new in December, 2008. Never run. Never filled with oil or gas. There is an identical one on a 25' sloop in Blue Hill Bay. I've seen him motoring through a srong chop, against the tide and current running into the Union River. I was planning on advertising it soon.
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SurryMark
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Nov 18th, '08, 10:04
- Location: Formerly CD27Y, Tula. Now Luders Sea Sprite 34
- Contact:
outboard source
I just sent the following note to a member who was interested in my motor. It might be interesting to others, if anyone doesn't know about this place to buy motors:
+++
I'm back home, looking at his outboard, and I think that shipping may indeed be the problem. It came in a box with formed styrofoam blocks, and I'd have to make something equivalent - probably a crate with some kind of interior supports for the motor. This probably means I'll have to sell it locally. I bought the motor from OnLine Outboards
http://www.onlineoutboards.com/6hp_toha ... motor.html
They give good prices, and free shipping.
Best,
Mark
+++
+++
I'm back home, looking at his outboard, and I think that shipping may indeed be the problem. It came in a box with formed styrofoam blocks, and I'd have to make something equivalent - probably a crate with some kind of interior supports for the motor. This probably means I'll have to sell it locally. I bought the motor from OnLine Outboards
http://www.onlineoutboards.com/6hp_toha ... motor.html
They give good prices, and free shipping.
Best,
Mark
+++
Size?
I see that there has not been a definitive answer concerning the fit of the Tohatsu 8hp.4stroke ultra-long shaft motor in a CD25 well. Can anyone state with some surety that this motor will indeed fit without major modifications?
Greg Lutzow
Nokomis, FL
CD25
"Beau Soleil"
sailing off a mooring in Sarasota Bay
With nothin' but stillness as far as you please
An' the silly mirage stringin' islands an' seas.
Nokomis, FL
CD25
"Beau Soleil"
sailing off a mooring in Sarasota Bay
With nothin' but stillness as far as you please
An' the silly mirage stringin' islands an' seas.
Greg,
I recieved a PM about the Mercury 6HP 4 stroke definately fitting in a CD25. Considering it is the same motor I would think it would fit.
However, when I buy I am planning on going to the dealer with the measurements of the well, etc. to ensure it does indeed fit. I was going to buy the motor online but considering the issues with my old Mercury 2 stroke I think I want to buy locally so I can ask questions, make returns, etc.
KD
I recieved a PM about the Mercury 6HP 4 stroke definately fitting in a CD25. Considering it is the same motor I would think it would fit.
However, when I buy I am planning on going to the dealer with the measurements of the well, etc. to ensure it does indeed fit. I was going to buy the motor online but considering the issues with my old Mercury 2 stroke I think I want to buy locally so I can ask questions, make returns, etc.
KD
"Life begins at 2 knots."
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winthrop fisher
- Posts: 837
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 17:52
- Location: Typhoon Wk 75 "Easy Rider" &
cd 22 "Easy Rider Sr" 84
I couldn’t fit any of the 4HP or 6HP newer four strokes into the well of my CD25 without moving the brackets back about eight inches. I'm pretty sure that the 8HP will be even tighter. It is 80lbs as opposed to 55 LBS for the 4HP and six hp. You also need to cut a wedge out of the wood engine mount to get these motors low enough so the hood closes. I cut a bit wedge out of mine and still have trouble closing the hood.
I have a 4HP Nissan. The 4HP motors for Merc/Nissan/Tohatsu believe it or not are exactly the same as the 6HP except for the Carb.
All new two strokes are tuned to run ultra lean. This helps efficiency. It also makes them stall at idle and difficult to start when the fuel gets a little old. I learned a trick from a mechanic friend. The screw to richen the mixture is covered by a metal cap of sorts. When I removed this cap it gave access to the screw. By richening the mixture my motor starts more easily and runs better at idle. I rarely use the motor, but when I need it, I really need it to start.
My favorite motor is an old beat up 2 stroke 2 HP Suzuki DT2. It fires up every time, I can drop it in the well with one hand and it gives me enough power to get out of the slip. I can lay it down sideways inside the well and lock the hood. I removed the tiller.
I keep the 4HP on the stern pulpit. It's a short shaft and isn't great in the ocean. I'm looking for a 6HP NIssan/Tohatsu/Merc long shaft, but from what I have read even better would be an older 8HP 2 stroke Nissan.
I didn't realize that the alternator was so useless. That's good to know.
I have a 4HP Nissan. The 4HP motors for Merc/Nissan/Tohatsu believe it or not are exactly the same as the 6HP except for the Carb.
All new two strokes are tuned to run ultra lean. This helps efficiency. It also makes them stall at idle and difficult to start when the fuel gets a little old. I learned a trick from a mechanic friend. The screw to richen the mixture is covered by a metal cap of sorts. When I removed this cap it gave access to the screw. By richening the mixture my motor starts more easily and runs better at idle. I rarely use the motor, but when I need it, I really need it to start.
My favorite motor is an old beat up 2 stroke 2 HP Suzuki DT2. It fires up every time, I can drop it in the well with one hand and it gives me enough power to get out of the slip. I can lay it down sideways inside the well and lock the hood. I removed the tiller.
I keep the 4HP on the stern pulpit. It's a short shaft and isn't great in the ocean. I'm looking for a 6HP NIssan/Tohatsu/Merc long shaft, but from what I have read even better would be an older 8HP 2 stroke Nissan.
I didn't realize that the alternator was so useless. That's good to know.
Seajunkie