Mast Questions...

[sfreihofer]

Once again, I appeal to the wisdom, experience, and mentoring by the collective knowledge represented on this board. HELP!

I have not yet gotten to the point of dealing with the mast, but I've noted that it is "stuffed" with small cubes of styrofoam, something like "shipping peanuts." I presume this was done to eliminate "mast slap" from the internal wiring. Was this standard practice during construction, or was this done later?

It seems this is a effective and light weight solution, thus a very good idea, but I'm wondering if there is a downside, such as moisture retention and a risk of increased internal corrosion? In other words, should I, or shouldn't I, use this method when I refit the mast?

Also, one spreader is frozen in its mount. I've tried heat, penetrating oil, impact, and nearly destructive force. Before I cut and grind, is there some "trick of the trade" I could use to free this stubborn spreader from its socket? And, should the spreader be "fixed" in the socket, or free? In other words, which of the two conditions is the correct one?

Comment is encouraged....

Stan Freihofer
1981 CD 25 #794
Ft. Lauderdale
www.ReefRoof.com

[Russell]

My CD also had foam in the mast, to prevent slapping. Since I wanted to move a few halyards internal I had to get it out (a HUGE pain in the ass). To prevent wire slap and protect the wire from halyards I installed PVC pipe, riveted to the mast inside as a wire conduit.

So long as your halyards remain external, I see no potential problem with the foam remaining there.

As for your spreader, the spreader socket is probably aluminium as is the spreader. Any freezing is likely at the clevis pin holding them together which would be stainless steel. I would focus my work on that, if it wont move with the cotter pin out, then attack from the other side and drill the head off of it, doing your best not to damage the aluminium. But maybe the pin is not the problem and its literally aluminium frozen to itsself? In that case, considering what you have tried, I would remove the spreader base from the mast with the spreader still attached, so you can work it from the inside.

In situations like this, never get overly worried about drilling SS fasteners out, it is often the only way. If you do hit the aluminium while drilling out, dont worry, you can always redrill it evenly one size up and retap it.

When refastening be sure to use some sort of anti seize when using SS and aluminium. I like 4200, a dab on the fastener before screwing it in. It will coat and make a barrier between the metals to prevent seizing, but will also act as a thread lock so it wont work its way out, but still not so permanent that you cannot take it out with a normal screw driver.

For non load taking mast attachments (radar mount, running lights, etc..) I prefer rivets over machine screws as they drill out easy with little risk of damage.

[sfreihofer]

Thanks for responding, Russell;

Running the halyards internally would be a nice option, so I'd like to know how you arranged the halyard exit from the mast? Are there any structural concerns by drilling exits in the mast? I understand the benefits of internal halyards, I understand the need for wiring conduit in that circumstance, but I don't know how the exit is done.

As for the spreader, I'm prepared to be destructive. In fact, I have already ordered and received a new spreader and socket (more expensive than I expected). The cotter pin is already out. In addition to three screws on the perimeter of the socket , the two sockets are joined through the mast with what appears to be a stainless steel bolt, and with only one spreader free, I only have access to the head of the bolt, not the nut. I'm thinking of cutting the spreader at the socket to access the nut, and I'm also prepared to cut the socket if necessary... but I am reluctant to be destructive if there is a preferable option. There may not be one.

While on the subject, I've read that stainless steel sockets are much preferred over the original cast aluminum. Has anyone had any problems with the originals, or is this an exaggerated concern?

Thanks for your input...

Stan Freihofer
1981 CD 25 #794
Fort Lauderdale
www.ReefRoof.com

My CD also had foam in the mast, to prevent slapping. Since I wanted to move a few halyards internal I had to get it out (a HUGE pain in the ass). To prevent wire slap and protect the wire from halyards I installed PVC pipe, riveted to the mast inside as a wire conduit.

So long as your halyards remain external, I see no potential problem with the foam remaining there.

As for your spreader, the spreader socket is probably aluminium as is the spreader. Any freezing is likely at the clevis pin holding them together which would be stainless steel. I would focus my work on that, if it wont move with the cotter pin out, then attack from the other side and drill the head off of it, doing your best not to damage the aluminium. But maybe the pin is not the problem and its literally aluminium frozen to itsself? In that case, considering what you have tried, I would remove the spreader base from the mast with the spreader still attached, so you can work it from the inside.

In situations like this, never get overly worried about drilling SS fasteners out, it is often the only way. If you do hit the aluminium while drilling out, dont worry, you can always redrill it evenly one size up and retap it.

When refastening be sure to use some sort of anti seize when using SS and aluminium. I like 4200, a dab on the fastener before screwing it in. It will coat and make a barrier between the metals to prevent seizing, but will also act as a thread lock so it wont work its way out, but still not so permanent that you cannot take it out with a normal screw driver.

For non load taking mast attachments (radar mount, running lights, etc..) I prefer rivets over machine screws as they drill out easy with little risk of damage.

[Anthony P. Jeske]

Hi Stan:
You can affix Ty-wraps to the internal wiring every foot or so, leaving the long tail still attached. The tail will keep the wires from knocking around, but the wire bundle will still be easy to remove and install. "Bow ties" of foam tied to the wires will work, too.
I use Tef-Gel to isolate stainless fasteners from aluminium. It's well recommended.
The purpose of internal is halyards is to reduce windage and so improve windward performance. I would submit that, for the benefit realized, it's a very expensive "go fast" improvement.
A window in the jib, so you can see both jib telltales, along with telltales on the leech of the main will do more to improve perfomance than internal halyards and for a lot less money. After that, I'd add a boom vang, then upgrade the main boom traveller to a moderm ball bearing setup.
Great website, by the way.
Good Luck,
Tony Jeske

[Russell]

Internal halyard exits are about as simple as drilling a hole and installing an exit plate.

Internal halyards are not only performace related, and I personally could have cared less about performance. It greatly neatens up your mast for one. Also, most external halyards take up two sheeves at the top of the mast, one forward and one aft. Running them internal they only take one sheeve, thus freeing up sheeves for new uses (spare halyards, topping lift, etc..).

Its a rather easy and inexpensive DIY job. Depending on your rig setup, its likely you only expense will be your exit plates, PVC for wire conduit and fasteners.

I am not sure why Tony has this idea of great expense, its drasticly cheaper then any of the things he mentioned.

[Russell]

Example of a schafer exit plate, sold by defender for about $16

[sfreihofer]

Hi Tony;

I have read of the "tie-wrap tail" trick, and it's an even better solution than the peanuts, so I thank you for reminding me of it. I assume that it could present problems if the halyards are internal to the mast, so it is clear that my first decision should be whether or not to make the halyards internal.

I already bought some Tef-Gel. The other upgrades you mention are also wise, and I will weigh the value with the cost. Thanks for sharing. It's really helpful.

Stan

[sfreihofer]

Thanks again, Russell,

Your comments are very helpful, and I thank you. I like the idea of internal halyards, if for no other reason than you can double the number. Let me ask, is there any problem with "mast slap" when the halyards are internal?

And again, I worry about drilling holes in the mast, since these would have to be fairly large. Aside from staggering the exit holes, do you have any other tidbits of advice for this upgrade?

Stan
1981 CD 25 #794
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
www.ReefRoof.com