Rub/toe rail suggestions.

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

I bought a hurricane damaged CD31. Among other things the rub rails and sprit are destroyed and need replaced. I would like to get ideas on options I have in replacing them. Since teak is expensive, what wood would you recommend instead of teak? Would it be close enough to the rest of the wood on deck and not look out of place? I would like to do a lot of off shore cruising with this boat and maybe this is a good time to do something entirely different with it, but not sure what. Maybe a taller toe rail and better drainage? Incorporate ways to secure gas cans to the side, etc. As usual your opinions would be appreciated.

[Sethrkallman]

Hi I posted a similar question about cockpit combing boards a year ago. lots of responces. We made new combing boards out of white oak. We are happy with the white oak. After all they built boats out of white oak for years. It is a lighter color, I prefer to think of it as complimenting the other brightwork as opposed to clashing. And a part that costs $200 in teak is $20 in white oak. It will have to be kept after, and replaced sooner. so.

seth

[Larry DeMers]

Hi,

Think long term with anything that is added permanently to your boat. It's far too much work to think of doing it all over again in 5 years or something. I prefer to think that I am the current caretaker of my Cape Dory 30, than the owner. Caretaker implies that there will be others that love this boat after me and what I do should be up to the boats quality level at least.

There are only two woods that will work here: Teak of course, and mahogany. There are several species of both woods, so care has to be taken in choosing your woods, so that you don't get a glaring mismatch.

Where to find this wood becomes the next most important question. Here is where you set the entire cost of this project. I have had success finding teak boards auctioned on Ebay. Sitting in front of me now is a 5 ft. long 1 1/8x11 in. piece of solid Brazilian Teak. It is worth perhaps $120 at sources in Minneapolis (Youngbloods Hardwood), plus any shipping. I won the auction at $19, plus $30 shipping, since the piece weighs about 15 lbs. I have another pile of teak cutoffs, sized 1"x10"x14". This was around $12 plus $15 in shipping. The stack is 13 pieces high.

If you can locate a good buy of the needed board feet in teak, you will never regret it.

Mahogany should be a similar situation. Keep looking as the inventory changes every few days.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

[Paul D.]

I have to agree with Larry; you want a very stout wood for the toerail so as not to do it again. By that I mean rot resistance. The toerail is screwed to the deck making a joint where water and all the pollutants will seep into. I would go either teak or one of the similar tropical hardwoods someone else will know better than I.

I would make the scuppers a bigger size since you can. I have always wanted to make the scuppers on our 33 bigger. But the toerail is so low that not much water is on deck. If you are going offshore you could raise them. For that I would be considering the line of the boat - aesthetics, and also strength. You won't be able to go too high without designing some attachment method that is involved.

We are only caretakers. If more folks had that attitude all things would be in much better shape eh? But that's another post...

Good luck,

Paul

[Jim Walsh]

I believe in getting plenty of second opinions on subjects on which I have limited knowledge. I suggest you try something like the woodenboat forums or write a letter with your specific question. They publish a great magazine, I love it for the historical perspective and the review of classic yachts. I'm no carpenter and ships carpentry and the proper use and selection of woods takes a lifetime to master. I do recommend that this is no time to pinch a penny. Sometimes you have to spend real cash to get real results. I've seen some horrible results from cost cutting. There is very little teak trim on the 31. I would look at it from the perspective that I was thankful to be spending one b.o.a.t. unit (break out another thousand) and not three or four.

[lubeckmaine]

CD31ketch

I agree wholeheartedly in the concept of caretaker. Plus you're looking to increase the value of your ship. Don't pinch here. Looking for good buys on ebay or elsewhere will reward you in future. Good Luck. JB

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

I would like to think that by changing something does not make it skimping. When I bought my CD30K, one of the few things that I thought could be better were the toe rails. The way they get cruddy, they did not drain well, and I found they were of little help keeping gas cans on deck. I want practicality, and since an insurance company already decided this boat was totaled I looked at the project as a hunk of clay that I can mold in to my masterpiece.

My wife and I picked Cape Dories because of their apparent seaworthiness and good reputation. But, that does not mean there is not room for improvement. Before leaving the slip after buying our CD30K we completely re-wired it adding a few things to make better sense of the wiring. We also re-did the duel fuel system adding a fuel filter for each tank. This made it so if there was contamination in one tank we could switch to the other tank without first having to change a filter. Simple changes but great improvements to the boat.

I would be lying if I said money was not the issue. The railing is only a part of the list of repairs needed. I could spend the money on the toe rails but something tugs at me saying “do you want to spend that amount of money on something you did not like in the first place?â€

[Sea Owl]

Kevin;

Check out what Fenix did to a CD28 to take it around the world. Did a lot with toe rails, etc., may give you some ideas. He did an extraordinary amount of refit/reshape to the boat, which has stood up well in his around the world sail.

website is: http://www.sbastro.com/FeNIX/mainFrameSet.htm

Good luck on your new boat!

[aja]

Would anyone of you ever buy a Cape Dory that didn't have teak rails? I wouldn't. If the seller/restorer cut corners on that, what else did he skimp on? Plus - a CD31 is too pretty to skimp on. For me, it would have to be teak.

Don

[Steve Laume]

I love it, Wood snobs! I talked to a logger years ago about using Quaking Aspen for framing and sheathing. His reply was, wood is wood. The message was that one wood, would work as well as another for what I was doing. This was framing and not fine boat work. Teak is very nice but a bit over used in boats and definitely high priced. That said, the toe rails are a very good place to use it. If you were replacing all of the toe rails you might be able to use Epay or another very dense hard wood. I am looking to make up some winch stands this winter and wood love to find some nice short chunks of teak. Larry, could you part with your stack of cut offs? Higher toe rails would be very nice on the fore deck. I would prefer to have something I could brace my foot against up there than literally only a toe hold, Steve.

[Sethrkallman]

As we refit our CD 27 there is limited money and lots to do. so do we spend the $400 on teak? I decided to replace 2 sea cocks. and all the hoses, exsaust etc .The thinking is the seacocks and hoses can sink the boat . Replacing bits of bright work in the future is no big deal. And a pleasant way to spend a day or so on the hook,.

We own these boats beacuse we love these boats , we respect them and their intergrety. We do live in this world. There are lots reasons to look for other woods. the tropical forests are taking a beating. Perhaps recycled teak. other woods. Who knows
be well
seth

[John Vigor]

Seth, have a look for a wood called iroko. It's used as a teak substitute in many parts of the world and is highly recommended. I've had it on previous boats. It's hard and durable on deck. It's cheaper than teak and often comes with an attractive dark red hue, more like mahogany.

Cheers,

John V.

[Jerry Albright]

Iroko is another option as John mentioned, I helped a friend replace some woodwork on his Hurricane damaged CD27 recently, We drove to Riverside Lumber in New Orleans to hand pick the wood required for the project.
Teak was almost twice the price of Mahogany, and Iroko was almost half the price of Mahogany. Teak and Mahogany was available in 10' lengths, but they had Iroko in planks up to 20' long. Iroko holds up well in a Marine enviroment and is used by several European boat manufacturers in lieu of Teak. It is a very hard wood and tough to work. I'll quote the guy at Riverside Lumber "it's harder than Chinese Arithmetic".

Jerry Albright
Mobile, Al.
CD30
Amazing Grace

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

Does anyone have pictures of a boat done in Iroko or Ipe? I understand Ipe is to hard to work with though. Also we visited Watergate Marina in League City Texas when we were in town for the CDSOA meeting and saw a CD30 that appeared to be done in a lighter wood. It was a good looking boat that stood out. Does any of the locals there know what boat I was talking about? If so what wood was it done in? I took more precise measurements of the rails and sprit today in hopes of getting the 2000 dollar quote for materials down. We will see.

[Amgine]

By far the best toe rail I've ever seen was on the Miller-built Brewer-designed Jason 33. The toe rail was a teak plank bent to the sheer, held in place with bronze fittings integrating the stanchion base, and two larger end fittings which each had hawse-hole fairleads. Effectively the toe rail had grown to bulwarks.

The fittings raised the 6" plank about a half-inch from the deck, a full-length scupper. The stanchion bases, with good-sized backing plates and large bolts, mean the plank can be used as an infinitely-adjustable base for snatch blocks or other temporary rigging uses. And it's great for keeping tools and gear aboard.

Not sure if it would work on a Cape Dory, or where you'd get the deck fittings, but it was a very handsome arrangement.