When I bought Malinche (formerly Solace II) this spring the stove/oven had been removed. I've got a line on a Hillerange Pressurized stove/oven. I believe that Cape Dory put this stove in a number of the 30s, probably including mine. What I'd like to know is where the alcohol tank was installed. Can anyone help me out here.
Bruce
Hillerange for CD 30
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Bruce Bett
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Apr 5th, '05, 07:48
- Location: CD30 #326 Malinche Port Sanilac MI
Member # 1160
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seadog6532
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sep 19th, '07, 14:34
- Location: last boat 31' C&C Corvette, 0wner of CD30k #112 Arianna.
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Bruce Bett
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Apr 5th, '05, 07:48
- Location: CD30 #326 Malinche Port Sanilac MI
Member # 1160
Below and behind what?
Below and behind what? The stove it's self?
Bruce
Bruce
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hmeyrick
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Apr 4th, '07, 20:04
- Location: CD 30, Hull 156, "Old alt". Previously "Old Salt", but the "S" fell o
Hi Bruce
Before I ripped it out, my alcohol tank used to be in a bracket just above the diesel tank, port lazarette. I think I still have it in the basement somewhere, if you should need one. It's painted green.
Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why you might wish to put one of those horrid pressurized fire-traps <i>back</i> into your boat? (I've not had good experiences with pressurized alcohol stoves)
Best of luck
Huw
Before I ripped it out, my alcohol tank used to be in a bracket just above the diesel tank, port lazarette. I think I still have it in the basement somewhere, if you should need one. It's painted green.
Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why you might wish to put one of those horrid pressurized fire-traps <i>back</i> into your boat? (I've not had good experiences with pressurized alcohol stoves)
Best of luck
Huw
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Bruce Bett
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Apr 5th, '05, 07:48
- Location: CD30 #326 Malinche Port Sanilac MI
Member # 1160
Well it's like this.
Well it's like this, some hot scones go down pretty well with the coffee on cold mornings on Lake Huron. The previous owner agreed with you on the subject of alcohol stove safety and took out the range and sold it. The little one burner butane thing that came with the boat will barely do coffee. So we need a decent range here. Frankly I think the pressurized alcohol stove is safer then propane or butane. Alcohol is pretty benign stuff after all (unless you drink it which brings up a whole different set of issues). It's not highly explosive and you can put it out by pouring water on it. The reason pressurized alcohol stoves have a bad reputation is their tendency to flare up. Years ago I posted to site the story of my first encounter with this type of stove, it went something like this. My brother had recently bought an old 60's Alberg 35 laying in Muskegon, MI. The boat needed some work before we could sail it 500 miles or so to his home in Marquette so we were staying on the boat, on the hard, for a week fixing things up. Well it was a dark and stormy night (cold too) and we thought a cup of hot tea would be lovely. We poured some alcohol in the tank pumped it up opened the valve and put a match to it. A flame shot up a good three feet and threatened to burn a hole in the headliner. I grabbed a frying pan and as I held it upside down over the burner to contain the flames I thought of our wives who were planning to accompany us on the voyage to Marquette. "The girls", I said "are not going to like this!" Well the "girls" did like it just fine and the reason they did was that the next morning we had a talk with the marina owner, Gordon Torresen who knows as much about boats and related matters as anyone I have ever known. He explained how to light the things and we had no more problems it. So having said aaaall of that I really don't agree that pressurized alcohol stoves are dangerous once you learn to use them. I'd rather have a nice origo, but that's about $1,500 which will be hard to justify before I replace my standing rigging. So now you understand.
Thanks for the information.
Bruce
Thanks for the information.
Bruce
Another "Aye" vote for alcohol (the stove, that is
Bruce, I agree.
Once the "how-to" lesson is done--and galley curtains out of jeopardy--the alcohol stove is fine. Perhaps it's not as hot as other ranges might be, but I don't have to worry about fumes accumulating either. And the same fuel works with the heater (Heat Pal--which, by the way, creates a handy 3rd burner). . .and removes adhesive residue. . .and doesn't hurt anything if it spills. . .can be used for disinfecting wounds. . .is readily available. . .etc.
Plus, cooking on it is just challenging enough to be rather charming--like cooking over a campfire
Once the "how-to" lesson is done--and galley curtains out of jeopardy--the alcohol stove is fine. Perhaps it's not as hot as other ranges might be, but I don't have to worry about fumes accumulating either. And the same fuel works with the heater (Heat Pal--which, by the way, creates a handy 3rd burner). . .and removes adhesive residue. . .and doesn't hurt anything if it spills. . .can be used for disinfecting wounds. . .is readily available. . .etc.
Plus, cooking on it is just challenging enough to be rather charming--like cooking over a campfire
To unpathed waters, undreamed shores.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
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ckreitlein
- Posts: 67
- Joined: May 8th, '08, 20:56
- Location: CD 30 Cutter "Miss Marley" Pensacola, FL
Pressurized alcohol stove
I have a Cape Dory 30, Miss Marley, that came with the hillerange pressurized alcohol stove. By the way, the pressure tank was in the port lazarette, in a bracket right above the diesel tank, mounted against the bulkhead. I used the stove many times, in port, at anchor and while sailing on the ocean. Two major problems with it.... first, it was difficult to get it started - filling the little tray with the right amount of alcohol. I often had trouble with the pre-heat flame getting away from me. Once at sea, alcohol poured out and I had a fire every where... fortunately, I kept a water bottle in the sink just for such eventualities and put it right out... but it could have been a disaster. On another occasion, my inexperienced friend was lighting it and the same thing happened with him - fire everywhere - and we were about 50 miles offshore. Again water put it out easily, but it was a mess cleaning up all the water.
The second, and perhaps worse problem is pressurizing the tank. I had to climb into the cockpit, wrestle with the lazarette hatch, bend over, hook up the bicycle pump (which was difficult as hell most of the time) and then, on my hands and knees pump up the stupid tank. And the pressure did not last long enough to cook much of anything. So I had to keep going out there and pump it back up. I looking into running an airhose from the tank into a spot on the bulkhead inside near the stove so I could pump up the tank from there, but could not find the right connections in town to do that.
I then went on a three week trip with a friend in his cape dory 28 and he had a Origo two burner non-pressurized cook top. I loved it. Was so easy to start and use. It worked great and would heat up anything in a pan in quick order. When I got home, I took out my dinosaur and installed a new two burner Origo I bought for $280.00 .... I used the same swinging brackets from my old Hillerange. I had to make a couple wooden pieces to support the whole thing, but it looks and works great. Only one single little downside.... no oven, only stove top burners. However, as Tristan Jones would tell you, you can cook anything in a pressure cooker - which is an excellent substitute for an oven. I have a couple pictures of the final outcome and would be happen to send them to you. I use the area under the stove top for storage of pots and pans, bread etc in plastic containers. The old Hillerange is sitting in my garage right now along with the tank and hoses. Good riddance to it. Love my Origo!
The second, and perhaps worse problem is pressurizing the tank. I had to climb into the cockpit, wrestle with the lazarette hatch, bend over, hook up the bicycle pump (which was difficult as hell most of the time) and then, on my hands and knees pump up the stupid tank. And the pressure did not last long enough to cook much of anything. So I had to keep going out there and pump it back up. I looking into running an airhose from the tank into a spot on the bulkhead inside near the stove so I could pump up the tank from there, but could not find the right connections in town to do that.
I then went on a three week trip with a friend in his cape dory 28 and he had a Origo two burner non-pressurized cook top. I loved it. Was so easy to start and use. It worked great and would heat up anything in a pan in quick order. When I got home, I took out my dinosaur and installed a new two burner Origo I bought for $280.00 .... I used the same swinging brackets from my old Hillerange. I had to make a couple wooden pieces to support the whole thing, but it looks and works great. Only one single little downside.... no oven, only stove top burners. However, as Tristan Jones would tell you, you can cook anything in a pressure cooker - which is an excellent substitute for an oven. I have a couple pictures of the final outcome and would be happen to send them to you. I use the area under the stove top for storage of pots and pans, bread etc in plastic containers. The old Hillerange is sitting in my garage right now along with the tank and hoses. Good riddance to it. Love my Origo!
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Larry DeMers
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 19:43
- Location: DeLaMer
CD30c #283
Lake Superior
Alkehol and the Sailor
Gotta weigh in here;
We've been using our alcohol stove for 19 years now...well, correct that. About 5 years ago, I bought a stainless steel Hillerrange alcohol stove from someone here on the board, and combined the parts with our older stove (not S.S.) to form what we use now. (No parts are available from the old manufacture)
Once the priming sequence is learned, the stove works well and is a reliable tool for cooking. Some time ago, I wrote a small piece on this priming sequence, and it should be available in the archives. Read it if you are having trouble learning to use the stove.
There should be no flareups at all. The priming of the stove only requires that you get the small tub under the burner wet with alcohol. Trying to fill the upper plate with alcohol is too much, and it will cause a good size flareup.
The idea is to preheat that small tube that carries the alcohol to the burner, so that it flashes the alcohol into gas upon contact, which then gives the burner a nice blue flame. This preheating takes 5 minutes, so let the burner alone while it is preheating, then relight it, and you are done. It seems that people treat the stove as if it were a gas stove..instant heat, just turn the knob and go. Preheat it first, then it will work fine.
Pressurize the tank to around 12-15 lbs., and that should last you many days of cooking. I get perhaps 15 days of cooking out of one charge, and you can tell when it runs down on pressure by watching the size of the flame, and the sound of the pressure.
No Way Should You Pump The Tank Up While The Stove Is Operating!!
Jan and I live aboard our boat 4 out of 7 days each week (spring thru late fall) now, and the stove is used two to three times a day, successfully. So it gets a lot of use. You can make it work for you too. Just do the preheat correctly, and it will work fine.
Cheers and hot meals!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
We've been using our alcohol stove for 19 years now...well, correct that. About 5 years ago, I bought a stainless steel Hillerrange alcohol stove from someone here on the board, and combined the parts with our older stove (not S.S.) to form what we use now. (No parts are available from the old manufacture)
Once the priming sequence is learned, the stove works well and is a reliable tool for cooking. Some time ago, I wrote a small piece on this priming sequence, and it should be available in the archives. Read it if you are having trouble learning to use the stove.
There should be no flareups at all. The priming of the stove only requires that you get the small tub under the burner wet with alcohol. Trying to fill the upper plate with alcohol is too much, and it will cause a good size flareup.
The idea is to preheat that small tube that carries the alcohol to the burner, so that it flashes the alcohol into gas upon contact, which then gives the burner a nice blue flame. This preheating takes 5 minutes, so let the burner alone while it is preheating, then relight it, and you are done. It seems that people treat the stove as if it were a gas stove..instant heat, just turn the knob and go. Preheat it first, then it will work fine.
Pressurize the tank to around 12-15 lbs., and that should last you many days of cooking. I get perhaps 15 days of cooking out of one charge, and you can tell when it runs down on pressure by watching the size of the flame, and the sound of the pressure.
No Way Should You Pump The Tank Up While The Stove Is Operating!!
Jan and I live aboard our boat 4 out of 7 days each week (spring thru late fall) now, and the stove is used two to three times a day, successfully. So it gets a lot of use. You can make it work for you too. Just do the preheat correctly, and it will work fine.
Cheers and hot meals!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
Pressurized vs. non-pressurized alcohol stoves
Folks,
I've owned both. The ONLY reason to have and use a pressurized alcohol stove is if you already have one and don't want to spend the money to replace it. There is no good reason to buy a new pressurized alcohol stove. The unpressurized Origo type is so much safer and easy to use; there is just no comparison.
I've owned both. The ONLY reason to have and use a pressurized alcohol stove is if you already have one and don't want to spend the money to replace it. There is no good reason to buy a new pressurized alcohol stove. The unpressurized Origo type is so much safer and easy to use; there is just no comparison.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
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Tom Keevil
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 23:45
- Location: Cape Dory 33 "Rover" Hull #66
pressurized stove is great
Two years ago we lived on Rover for five months straight, and cooked on our old Hillerange pressurized alcohol stove every day without any problems. It has an oven and three burners, which allow you to do some serious cooking - a two burner stove with no oven seriously limits your menu options. A 2-burner Origo with an oven is a lot of money that could go for other nice boat bits, and you still lose one burner.
Our secret to avoiding preheating problems is to use our kitchen timer. Pump it to about 15 psi, open the valve about 1/4 turn and count to 4 or 5. Close the valve, light the alcohol absorbed in the pad and start the timer for 4 minutes. When the timer goes off, turn the valve and the burner will light. Cook.
Our tank will lose pressure with time if the cap isn't on really well. We tighten it with a pair of channel-lock pliers and that usually does it.
Our secret to avoiding preheating problems is to use our kitchen timer. Pump it to about 15 psi, open the valve about 1/4 turn and count to 4 or 5. Close the valve, light the alcohol absorbed in the pad and start the timer for 4 minutes. When the timer goes off, turn the valve and the burner will light. Cook.
Our tank will lose pressure with time if the cap isn't on really well. We tighten it with a pair of channel-lock pliers and that usually does it.
Tom and Jean Keevil
CD33 Rover
Ashland OR and Ladysmith, BC
CD33 Rover
Ashland OR and Ladysmith, BC
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hmeyrick
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Apr 4th, '07, 20:04
- Location: CD 30, Hull 156, "Old alt". Previously "Old Salt", but the "S" fell o
With all due respect to the afficionados of pressurized alcohol, I'm with Troy and Ckreitlein on this one.
See, I have no doubt that pressurized stoves work. And I understand, theoretically, that the esoteric arts of pressurized alcohol stovery can probably be mastered by anyone who wishes to apply him or herself to so doing. But <i>I</i> never could seem to master my damned stove. (fifteen days Larry? Jeeze, I was lucky to get fifteen <i>minutes</i> before that flame petered out!) And it's not that I didn't try.
I did my darndest to try to learn to love my pressurized stove; after all Cape Dory Yachts saw fit to include it as original equipment, and all the famous sailor authors of the sixties seemed to rave about them, when they weren't raving about Primus stoves. But at best, my stove was a tempermental crotchety beast with a thinly disguised fondness for arson (not unlike my childhood friend Eric)
Now, of the sailors of my acquaintance, the only ones who actually use a pressurized stove use it as a platform upon which to put a butane camping stove, and if I'm not mistaken few manufacturers offer pressurized stoves nowadays as original equipment. This isn't to suggest that pressurized stoves don't work (heck astrolabes or arquebusses work, if you know how to work them) but that today's modern boater generally tends to regard the pressurized alcohol stove as an obsolete relic of an earlier, more heroic age.
I admire and respect heroes, but I am no hero myself. I replaced my pressurized stove with an Origo stove. I am not disappointed with myself at all. The coffee still tastes pretty great!
Anyways- Bruce, best of luck to you however you see fit to equip your galley. The wind blows the same regardless of what kind of stove we have!
(incidentally, Larry DeMers, good to see you posting again. Back when I got my boat you were posting all the time back then and I learned a whale of a lot from reading what you had to say. Thanks!)
See, I have no doubt that pressurized stoves work. And I understand, theoretically, that the esoteric arts of pressurized alcohol stovery can probably be mastered by anyone who wishes to apply him or herself to so doing. But <i>I</i> never could seem to master my damned stove. (fifteen days Larry? Jeeze, I was lucky to get fifteen <i>minutes</i> before that flame petered out!) And it's not that I didn't try.
I did my darndest to try to learn to love my pressurized stove; after all Cape Dory Yachts saw fit to include it as original equipment, and all the famous sailor authors of the sixties seemed to rave about them, when they weren't raving about Primus stoves. But at best, my stove was a tempermental crotchety beast with a thinly disguised fondness for arson (not unlike my childhood friend Eric)
Now, of the sailors of my acquaintance, the only ones who actually use a pressurized stove use it as a platform upon which to put a butane camping stove, and if I'm not mistaken few manufacturers offer pressurized stoves nowadays as original equipment. This isn't to suggest that pressurized stoves don't work (heck astrolabes or arquebusses work, if you know how to work them) but that today's modern boater generally tends to regard the pressurized alcohol stove as an obsolete relic of an earlier, more heroic age.
I admire and respect heroes, but I am no hero myself. I replaced my pressurized stove with an Origo stove. I am not disappointed with myself at all. The coffee still tastes pretty great!
Anyways- Bruce, best of luck to you however you see fit to equip your galley. The wind blows the same regardless of what kind of stove we have!
(incidentally, Larry DeMers, good to see you posting again. Back when I got my boat you were posting all the time back then and I learned a whale of a lot from reading what you had to say. Thanks!)
Alcohol Stoves
I'll get this out of the way, first. I like pressure alcohol stoves; real stoves with real ovens. I specifically like the older versions with cast burners. They are bulletproof. Check the brushes and replace the Teflon seals once every 30 years. The flimsy primus type burner, not so much.
I like the way it sounds, I like the way it smells, I like the quirks that each individual burner demonstrates. I like the fuel. Clean your eye glasses with it. If it leaves cloudy lenses get cleaner fuel. Put your extra fuel in aluminum camp stove bottles and toss, yes toss, them in a locker. I just bought a like new Seaward SS 2120 and paid to ship it from California and I was glad to do it.
I get a big kick out of the dump alcohol and go with LP gas crowd. It's easier, it's faster, it's painless, it's safer.... Hmmm... You know this is the same argument power boaters use about sailing. Most power boats get you there easier, faster, painlessly, and yes, even safer. Is money the only thing keeping a mast on your boat? Money isn't the issue. Then why pose these arguments to someone who prefers alcohol on the boat? I'd eat PB&Js before putting a LPG stove in a boat and I would take it out if it were on-board, they scare me. I’m told I don’t understand. Gee, that sounds familiar… That’s what I say about pressure alcohol. I don't go around jinxing LPG stoves so why all the negativity about pressure alcohol. One can't post on any board or list about parts, or service, or Function without the negativity derailing the post. What is with that? The fact is there is no proof that LPG is safer than Pressure Alcohol, NONE! Do you get a discount from your insurance for converting to LPG; no, you get a request for a survey update. Storage is a problem and the systems are twice as complicated which translates to twice the chance of a failure. We are talking about boats, right. Since when did added complication below decks, with a critically hazardous fuel system, become acceptable? Ops may be easier but at what price?
Okay, I’m done. Sorry if you're an innocent bystander. My time and my place to say this just happened to be now.
Ed
I like the way it sounds, I like the way it smells, I like the quirks that each individual burner demonstrates. I like the fuel. Clean your eye glasses with it. If it leaves cloudy lenses get cleaner fuel. Put your extra fuel in aluminum camp stove bottles and toss, yes toss, them in a locker. I just bought a like new Seaward SS 2120 and paid to ship it from California and I was glad to do it.
I get a big kick out of the dump alcohol and go with LP gas crowd. It's easier, it's faster, it's painless, it's safer.... Hmmm... You know this is the same argument power boaters use about sailing. Most power boats get you there easier, faster, painlessly, and yes, even safer. Is money the only thing keeping a mast on your boat? Money isn't the issue. Then why pose these arguments to someone who prefers alcohol on the boat? I'd eat PB&Js before putting a LPG stove in a boat and I would take it out if it were on-board, they scare me. I’m told I don’t understand. Gee, that sounds familiar… That’s what I say about pressure alcohol. I don't go around jinxing LPG stoves so why all the negativity about pressure alcohol. One can't post on any board or list about parts, or service, or Function without the negativity derailing the post. What is with that? The fact is there is no proof that LPG is safer than Pressure Alcohol, NONE! Do you get a discount from your insurance for converting to LPG; no, you get a request for a survey update. Storage is a problem and the systems are twice as complicated which translates to twice the chance of a failure. We are talking about boats, right. Since when did added complication below decks, with a critically hazardous fuel system, become acceptable? Ops may be easier but at what price?
Okay, I’m done. Sorry if you're an innocent bystander. My time and my place to say this just happened to be now.
Ed
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Ocean Girl
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Aug 30th, '08, 21:07
- Location: 1981 Cape Dory 30 cutter, located at Waterford Harbor, Clear lake, Texas
- Contact:
Free hot stuff
Well, who'd thought stoves would cause such a heated debate (sorry for the pun -couldn't help me self).
Well, on that note, I am removing my alky stove to get ready for a propane (I live life in the fast lane) so if anyone wants a free stove and all the trimmings just let me know and I'll ship it to ya (it seems in good shape, the boat spent twenty years on a fresh water lake so not a lot of rust).
Better yet, if your at the Annual-big-hoop-la meeting in Clear lake you can haul it off yourself and save on the shipping.
Have a great day!
Well, on that note, I am removing my alky stove to get ready for a propane (I live life in the fast lane) so if anyone wants a free stove and all the trimmings just let me know and I'll ship it to ya (it seems in good shape, the boat spent twenty years on a fresh water lake so not a lot of rust).
Better yet, if your at the Annual-big-hoop-la meeting in Clear lake you can haul it off yourself and save on the shipping.
Have a great day!
There is nothing like lying flat on your back on the deck, alone except for the helmsman aft at the wheel, silence except for the lapping of the sea against the side of the ship. At that time you can be equal to Ulysses and brother to him.
- Errol Flynn
PS I have a blog now!
http://oceangirlcd30.blogspot.com/
- Errol Flynn
PS I have a blog now!
http://oceangirlcd30.blogspot.com/
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MarcMcCarron
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Feb 9th, '07, 11:22
- Location: CAPE DORY 30 KETCH - CLEONA
propane
I vote for propane - My CD has a propane stove/oven that is
very convenient and safe.
very convenient and safe.
MARC MCCARRON
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
COMPRESSED NATURAL GAS
Of course the real "safe and easy" stove fuel is CNG. Many years ago, when it was introduced to the boating public, it was widely understood to be safer than propane because if it does happen to leak, the vapors drift up and safely away rather than becoming a bomb in the bilge. It was popular and common at one time, but it's no longer readily available. I have no idea what politics or other shenanigans led to the demise of CNG in the market, but the lack of ready availability (compared to less safe propane) is just dumb.
My CD36 came into my life with an old CNG stove. I have learned that I can drive to a certain place in Alabama and get my tanks refilled. This is one of those "word of mouth" connections that I lucked into because of a CDSOA connection. This compared to propane, which though less safe, is on practically every street corner. Go figure.
My CD36 came into my life with an old CNG stove. I have learned that I can drive to a certain place in Alabama and get my tanks refilled. This is one of those "word of mouth" connections that I lucked into because of a CDSOA connection. This compared to propane, which though less safe, is on practically every street corner. Go figure.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott