novice racing questions
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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- Posts: 71
- Joined: Mar 7th, '08, 10:59
- Location: 1972 CD Typhoon Weekender #315, LADYBUG, Irvington, Va.
novice racing questions
Okay you experienced CD Ty racers, I am trying to improve my racing skills by better understanding sail trim. I have read much on the subject and find the theory of one writer contradicts that of another writer. So, my questions are:
HEADSAIL IN LIGHT AIR (<5 kts) WHEN BEATING
1. Should the genoa be flat? Loose?
2. Should the sheet travelers be forward, aft, in between?
3. Which telltales are the most important to have stream aft: upper, mid, lower? How is that achieved?
MAINSAIL: Same conditions
1. How should the mainsheet traveler be set? (I have a traveler, not the standard block configuration.) Center? To windward? To leeward? What should be the boom position?
2. How should the out haul and down haul be set?
3. Which telltales are the most important in light air?
I can muddle along in mid to heavy air, but am uncertain in light air and am constantly trying to adjust all the while not knowing what the heck I'm doing. Any help will be much appreciated.
Chuck, If you read this and are racing with us this afternoon, I'm afraid I may have to ignore your suggestions!!
HEADSAIL IN LIGHT AIR (<5 kts) WHEN BEATING
1. Should the genoa be flat? Loose?
2. Should the sheet travelers be forward, aft, in between?
3. Which telltales are the most important to have stream aft: upper, mid, lower? How is that achieved?
MAINSAIL: Same conditions
1. How should the mainsheet traveler be set? (I have a traveler, not the standard block configuration.) Center? To windward? To leeward? What should be the boom position?
2. How should the out haul and down haul be set?
3. Which telltales are the most important in light air?
I can muddle along in mid to heavy air, but am uncertain in light air and am constantly trying to adjust all the while not knowing what the heck I'm doing. Any help will be much appreciated.
Chuck, If you read this and are racing with us this afternoon, I'm afraid I may have to ignore your suggestions!!
"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust our sails."
- tartansailor
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Sail Trim
Ned,
I mean this most respectfully, so please do not take offense,
but you are asking the wrong questions.
You want to know what the sails should look like in all weather,
and sea conditions; and why.
Make up your own trim guide for wind and sea state for different
points of sail.
Get "Sail Power" by Wallace Ross, Alfred A. Knopf, NY.
Dick
I mean this most respectfully, so please do not take offense,
but you are asking the wrong questions.
You want to know what the sails should look like in all weather,
and sea conditions; and why.
Make up your own trim guide for wind and sea state for different
points of sail.
Get "Sail Power" by Wallace Ross, Alfred A. Knopf, NY.
Dick
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- Posts: 71
- Joined: Mar 7th, '08, 10:59
- Location: 1972 CD Typhoon Weekender #315, LADYBUG, Irvington, Va.
sail trim
Dick:
Thanks for the reply. No offense taken and I know you are correct with your suggested questions. Guess I'm looking for some "rule of thumb" pointers. I will follow your advice re. Ross's "Sail Power" by looking on Amazon. I would be interested in seeing what a "trim guide" looks like. I assume it is a quick reference sheet to be used when racing.
Ned
Thanks for the reply. No offense taken and I know you are correct with your suggested questions. Guess I'm looking for some "rule of thumb" pointers. I will follow your advice re. Ross's "Sail Power" by looking on Amazon. I would be interested in seeing what a "trim guide" looks like. I assume it is a quick reference sheet to be used when racing.
Ned
"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust our sails."
Dick is right, of course, but I'll take a stab at answering the easist of your questions. I don't sail a Ty, but this is pretty generic.
Regarding both the genny and the main, your telltales perform two functions (I am assuming that when you refer to telltales on the main you are referring to telltales on the leach). As you clearly understand, one function is to tell you whether a particular part of the sail is luffing, stalling or in between. However, another important part of sail trim is twist and that is why you have telltales at different heights on the sail. Your sail has the correct twist when it is neither luffing nor stalling up and down its entire height. In other words, all the telltales are equally important and you want to adjust twist so they all luff or stall simultaneously.
Adjusting twist on the genoa is easy. You just move the genoa car forward (less twist) or back (more twist) until all the telltales flutter at the same time when you start to luff. Unless you have roller-furling, you should view this as a set-it-and-forget-it adjustment for now.
Adjusting twist on the mainsail is more of an art because of the interaction between the sheet and the traveler. Assuming light air, I would start with the traveler amidships and adjust twist with the sheet. In light air, correct twist may cause a wind bubble up by the luff. You should be able to help that by moving the traveler a little to windward, but don't stall the sail. Keep going back and forth making small adjustments to the sheet and then the traveler until you have the minimal amount of bubble at the luff consistent with no stalling at the leach.
Regarding both the genny and the main, your telltales perform two functions (I am assuming that when you refer to telltales on the main you are referring to telltales on the leach). As you clearly understand, one function is to tell you whether a particular part of the sail is luffing, stalling or in between. However, another important part of sail trim is twist and that is why you have telltales at different heights on the sail. Your sail has the correct twist when it is neither luffing nor stalling up and down its entire height. In other words, all the telltales are equally important and you want to adjust twist so they all luff or stall simultaneously.
Adjusting twist on the genoa is easy. You just move the genoa car forward (less twist) or back (more twist) until all the telltales flutter at the same time when you start to luff. Unless you have roller-furling, you should view this as a set-it-and-forget-it adjustment for now.
Adjusting twist on the mainsail is more of an art because of the interaction between the sheet and the traveler. Assuming light air, I would start with the traveler amidships and adjust twist with the sheet. In light air, correct twist may cause a wind bubble up by the luff. You should be able to help that by moving the traveler a little to windward, but don't stall the sail. Keep going back and forth making small adjustments to the sheet and then the traveler until you have the minimal amount of bubble at the luff consistent with no stalling at the leach.
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- Posts: 146
- Joined: Feb 11th, '05, 10:33
- Location: C&C 27 MkV
FLYING CIRCUS
Sail trim
Ned:
I'll try to answer your queries:
HEADSAIL Beating in light air
1. You'll want a little extra fullness (curve) in both your heasail and main in light air. Just ease the genoa sheet a tad to see the fullness. Have your sailmaker put a draft stripe on the sail and you'll be able to see and judge better. On the main ease the outhaul to make the sail fuller. If its windy tighten it up. Flatten the main by tensioning the outhaul and flatten the genoa by sheeting in a little harder.
You positively want a clear window in your genoa so you can keep an eye on BOTh telltales. I'd say this is the number one improvement you can make for sail trim! If you don't have one, you sailmaker can add it, or, if you have a sewing machine at home, Sailrite sells an inexpensive kit.
2. Sheet travelers (genoa cars) are positioned so an imaginary line extended from the line formed by the genoa sheet touches the center of the sail. Usually when beating, this means the cars are aft. It's a good idea to mark that position so you can quickly and accurately return the cars there.
When reaching, you'll find the genoa car needs to be moved forward.
The key genoa telltale is the lower (in that clear window). You may find you need to sit on the low side to see it. If so, it's worth it especially in variable breezes. A tiller extension is also something you should consider. Another cost effective upgrade.
MAINSAIL
1. When beating the traveler should be set so that the boom is midships. As the wind picks up, and weather helm increases, you'll need to ease the traveler. If the traveler is out all the way and you still have weather helm, it's time to reef. You've replaced that awful roller reefing with jiffy reefing, right?
2. Main outhaul I discussed. You want the downhaul to be tensioned so that there are no scallops in the luff of the main. You can pretty much leave it tight once the sail is raised. On a LONG downwind, you may want to ease it a little to promote a little bagginess in the main.
3. The telltales on the leech of the main are the important ones. Erratic airflow around the mast makes reading the main luff telltales problematic. Set the main so all the leech telltales are flowing.
Positively, absolutely add a boom vang!
I'll try to answer your queries:
HEADSAIL Beating in light air
1. You'll want a little extra fullness (curve) in both your heasail and main in light air. Just ease the genoa sheet a tad to see the fullness. Have your sailmaker put a draft stripe on the sail and you'll be able to see and judge better. On the main ease the outhaul to make the sail fuller. If its windy tighten it up. Flatten the main by tensioning the outhaul and flatten the genoa by sheeting in a little harder.
You positively want a clear window in your genoa so you can keep an eye on BOTh telltales. I'd say this is the number one improvement you can make for sail trim! If you don't have one, you sailmaker can add it, or, if you have a sewing machine at home, Sailrite sells an inexpensive kit.
2. Sheet travelers (genoa cars) are positioned so an imaginary line extended from the line formed by the genoa sheet touches the center of the sail. Usually when beating, this means the cars are aft. It's a good idea to mark that position so you can quickly and accurately return the cars there.
When reaching, you'll find the genoa car needs to be moved forward.
The key genoa telltale is the lower (in that clear window). You may find you need to sit on the low side to see it. If so, it's worth it especially in variable breezes. A tiller extension is also something you should consider. Another cost effective upgrade.
MAINSAIL
1. When beating the traveler should be set so that the boom is midships. As the wind picks up, and weather helm increases, you'll need to ease the traveler. If the traveler is out all the way and you still have weather helm, it's time to reef. You've replaced that awful roller reefing with jiffy reefing, right?
2. Main outhaul I discussed. You want the downhaul to be tensioned so that there are no scallops in the luff of the main. You can pretty much leave it tight once the sail is raised. On a LONG downwind, you may want to ease it a little to promote a little bagginess in the main.
3. The telltales on the leech of the main are the important ones. Erratic airflow around the mast makes reading the main luff telltales problematic. Set the main so all the leech telltales are flowing.
Positively, absolutely add a boom vang!
Hi Ned,
I'll also vote for a boom vang as a 1st priority!
Here's a link for Sailing to telltales that may be helpful as well.
Enjoy & Have FUN!!!
-michael
I'll also vote for a boom vang as a 1st priority!
Here's a link for Sailing to telltales that may be helpful as well.
Enjoy & Have FUN!!!
-michael
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
-
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Mar 7th, '08, 10:59
- Location: 1972 CD Typhoon Weekender #315, LADYBUG, Irvington, Va.
Sail Trim
Many thanks to each of you for taking the time to respond to my message. I do have a boom vang, but no telltale windows. I can see the outside genoa telltales through the sail most of the time. There are times, however, when the sun prevents this. Of course, that happens only in close races. The telltale window is the answer and I plan to have them installed when LADYBUG is put away for the winter.
Stan and Anthony, I will be summarizing your suggestions for quick reference when sailing. My memory isn't what it use to be.
Ned
Stan and Anthony, I will be summarizing your suggestions for quick reference when sailing. My memory isn't what it use to be.
Ned
"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust our sails."
When I was ordering new sails for Brigitta, I asked the sailmaker about telltale windows... he fervently suggested against them because they would not "age" as well as the dacron cloth would. He would add them if I wanted (at extra $$$) but convinced me to forgo them. I can generally read the tales without much trouble, except at night, of course, and glad I skipped them.
-michael
-michael
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!