Documenting the 25D revisited

[trapper]

Hi all,

I just sent in my paperwork to document Saga Blue. I spent a lot of time researching the issue on this board. The critical document is the Coast Guard letter posted sometime ago, re: Contessa 26 Sailboat (ON 1190689). I intend to keep a copy of that letter in my file.

When I used the automated CG-5397 form (measurement form), the boat did not qualify. However, after carefully reading the letter and talking to the people at the Coast Guard Documentation Center, I realized that on question 5 we should check "sailboat distinct keel" rather than "sailboat integral keel." Both the Contessa and the Cape Dory have what I would call an intergal keel, but the letter said to use distinct keel--so did the nice folks at the documentation center. With that change, it measured out at 6 grt and 5 nrt. It was very easy.

I sent in the following documents: CG 1258 (application)
CG 5397 (simplified measurement), copy of my state title and credit card authorization form ($133). Everything but my state title is on their website.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcforms.asp

I also put all documents in a pdf file and emailed. It could not have been any easier. I'll keep the board posted on the process. I anticipate approximately 2 month processing time.

[barfwinkle]

Trapper

Please Do keep us posted. While I want to do the same, however I can probably use the $$$$ elsewhere (Like to replace a jib car that fits 3/4" track as mine broke recently).

Thanks for the info.

[trapper]

Will do! I understand the $$$ needed elsewhere. Saga is getting a new name and a good compound and polish to the hull -- so it is just a good time to get rid of the numbers on the bow and add new stickers to the stern

I was able to purchase the components to rig the mast for a spinnaker today thanks to you Bill--research on the board -- and I found all I needed to know without going to the boat! Thank you again.!

[tartansailor]

Bill,
I have a spare that you can have, gratis.
PM me an address.

Dick

[BillNH]

I'll keep the board posted on the process. I anticipate approximately 2 month processing time.

Glad that Contessa letter was useful. I've used it twice now, most recently with my 26D, and it's the key to getting through the documentation process with a borderline vessel... I've posted it on a few different boards now, so the NVDC is probably seeing alot of it!

You can check on your application on the NVDC website. They post what day's applications they're currently working on at http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcprocessdate.asp

[trapper]

Thanks Bill. That letter is key for 2 reasons. First, if sister ships are documented then it allows for the documentation of the undocumented sister ships. Second, the Contessa, like the Cape Dory, is a full keel boat. As such, I would have thought that the keel choice on the auto measurement form would be the integral keel. However, the Contessa letter directs us to use the "distinct keel" option. That option yeilds 5 nrt for CD25D which makes the boat eligible for documentation. The integral keel option makes her less than 5nrt and ineligible based on the auto measurement form.

The Coast Guard folks said I did not need to include the Contessa letter but I have it in my files. In my view, it is important to maintain the Contessa letter because of the keel choice. There are signficant fines for submitting the auto-measurement form with errors designed to get a boat documented that otherwise would not qualify. The Contessa letter directs me to use the distinct keel choice. Thus, if that was error, it was directed by the USCG.

My CD25D was built April, 2005, after the change in the regs. I think it would still qualify as a sister ship of the 1984 models but with the "distinct keel" choice, she measures out 5nrt abd 6grt and therefore is eligible for documentation without resorting to sister ship comparison. With the Contessa letter, my CDA5D should roll right through documentation.

I would recommend anyone documenting a Cape Dory 25D or a Cape Dory 26 maintain a copy of the Contessa letter as a permanent part of their documentation papers. Thank you so much for the post.

I'll let you know how it turns out. Oh, btw, the CG personnel thought I was a "boat dealer" because of my "knowlege" of the process--NOPE--just been reading the "board"

[trapper]

I got a call today from the Coast Guard. It seems I did not sign the measurement form and they could not read my copy of the S.C. boat title. So, I signed the form and sent them another copy of the boat title. They gave me Saga's number. Her documentation process should be complete tomorrow. It took 1 month.

I can now order my number board. The best looking one I have found is shown here when you scroll down
http://www.americanwoodsign.com/portfolio.html
but it is very expensive, I think anyway (a little less than $200). Any body know of any good alternatives?

[Neil Gordon]

Any body know of any good alternatives?

I used vinyl numbers from West Marine, stuck them inside a locker against the hull and covered them over with epoxy.

[trapper]

Well Saga is all documented. She has her name and hailing port and her No. board. The number board is a little bit of a problem for a CD25D. The board is quite large as the numbers must be 3". Neil put his in a locker. Great idea for a 28, but the 25D has almost no interior locker space, thanks to the loss of the v-berth and the pull out starboard berth. The only place it would fit would be the port locker. I would look very frazzeled emptying out the port locker for law enforcement, should the occassion present itself. So, I decided to get a beautiful board to show off her documentation--teak with gold number & letters. Beautiful, yes--Large, oh yeah! Ben took one look and said-- 'You'll have to get a bigger boat for that!' Well, that is not a solution since the number is Saga's and only Saga's. It will have to go on the hull behind the galley or above one of the settees. It will not fit on the bulkhead. Suggestion to CD25D's-- make sure you get your board as small as is possible!

[BillNH]

While number boards look nice, unless permanently affixed they do not follow the USCG requirements for marking vessels...

The official number assigned to documented vessels, preceded of the abbreviation "NO." must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least three inches high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

On wooden boats the number is typically carved into a main deckbeam, and it is generally affixed by welding a bead on steel vessels. The idea is that the marking is permanent for the life of the vessel, not something that can simply be unscrewed and removed...

You will want to epoxy your board to something permanent, not just screw it on - in case your boat is ever stolen - then the official number is another means of identifying your boat and proving ownership. That's why the regs call for a permanent marking on something structural.

[Neil Gordon]

The rules (edited to include only those applicable to recreational vessels):

The official number as shown on the certificate of documentation must be permanently affixed to some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be preceded by the abbreviation "NO" and must be shown in block type Arabic numerals of least 3 inches in height. Permanently affixed is defined as being implemented in such a manner that removal or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding area. Clearly visible means that it must be easily accessible in the event of a boarding inspection. The numbers must be affixed to inside of the hull itself or a permanently attached internal structure such as a bulkhead or engine stringer. There are various methods for installing the numbers such as stenciling, engraving, or affixing a plaque. However, these must be glassed over or permanently bonded and not simply secured with screws, rivets, or bolts.

For recreational vessels, the name and hailing port must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. Markings may be made with any materials that are durable. All letters or numerals must made in clearly legible letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals and must be as least 4 inches in height. Hailing port markings must include both the city and state which can be abbreviated.

[rtbates]

Seraph, our 25D, has her doc numbers on the forward bulkhead in the starboard head locker. They are vinyl letters covered with a clear coating.

[Joe Myerson]

Creme Brulee, my CD25D, has her documentation numbers carved into a piece of heavy teak that is permanently affixed to both the bottom of the starboard shelf in the head compartment and the interior of the hull.

--Joe

[trapper]

I dont think it would fit in the locker unless I turned it sideways. It may go above the shelf on the starboard side in the head.

I think we are going to cut out a place for it in the slats just over the starboard settee just aft of the bulkhead and affix it to the hull. Then we are going to finish it off with teak molding. It should then be permanently affixed to the hull.

Saga has an air conditioner on the port side of the head. The air conditioner has a teak cabinet built over it. I was thinking about affixing it to the teak cabinet but I am afraid that it may not be "permanent" as the facing board could be removed and replaced.

[Carl Thunberg]

Reading these posts, there seems to be two separate issues here. What is required vs. what looks nice. Of course, there's no answer to the question of decor. Whatever is appealing to you is the right answer, as long as it's permanently attached to the hull.

Personally, I'd never spend $200 on this, but that's coming from a cheap Yankee (not of the pin-stripe variety - no offense to my NY friends, but these socks are red). $200 will buy you a router and you can build one yourself.

Mine is epoxied to the hull inside the starboard side cockpit seat locker behind the battery bank. It's just a pine board that's been coated with epoxy. It ain't a piece of furniture, but it gets the job done. In case you were wondering, the starboard side was chosen intentionally because you never throw a bunch of junk on top of your batteries, so it's readily accessible should you be boarded by the Coast Guard and they should ask to see it.