Can you haul a small keel boat with slings NOT under the keel?
Our Cape Dory 22 needs a bottom job and it's small size is a problem in our area of SE Florida. Do it youself yards are history. The remaining yards have travel lifts that are enormous in size and cannot be be adjusted small enough to work on a tiny boat. {And the yards understandably are looking for the mega yachts ] A fork lift might be OK, but no one has one that would do a sailboat bottom.
Also, the cost where they will pull a small boat has gone to as much as $50 a foot, no less than $35.
There are residential davits available if you have a friend with a set. however, the universal distance between the lifts is 20' or more. To pick up a 22 foot keel boat, the lifting points for straps under the keel and forward of the rudder is about 10 feet.
The question is, can you safely lift the boat with a strap behind the rudder and one forward of the mast, with out causing damage to the boat? Proper safety lines would be used on course.
Careening would be great, however it's a legal no no if you could find a suitable beach.
Any ideas? Ron B
Hauling a CD 22 problem
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ron Brassord
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Nov 3rd, '05, 16:44
- Location: Cape Dory 22 Cd14s
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Rollergirl
- Posts: 87
- Joined: May 21st, '05, 14:27
- Location: Flying Scott, Sunfish
Considered buying a used trailer?
Even with refurbishment (higher bunks) the cost might be about the same as your expensive haulout. Afterwards, sell it to someone needing a CD 22/Ensign/Sea Sprite/similar trailer. Lots of sailboat deals go begging for lack of affordable transport.
I'd be wary of stress cracks on the wide-spaced sling idea, even if you could keep the boat balanced in the slings.
Good luck
Bill Bloxham
I'd be wary of stress cracks on the wide-spaced sling idea, even if you could keep the boat balanced in the slings.
Good luck
Bill Bloxham
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Ron Brassord
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Nov 3rd, '05, 16:44
- Location: Cape Dory 22 Cd14s
Hauling a CD 22
A trailer would be fine, but SE Florida is one big city with limited spaace. Certainly a problem for a trailer and working space. I also have roller furling and am adverse to dropping the mast by hand.
Ron B
Ron B
Hualing problem
Hi Ron:
I towed and launched a Hunter 23 for several years. I bought the boat without a trailer and bought a generic one that fitted it pretty well. It wasnt cheap as I recall. Pulling the boat onto a trailer involved finding a ramp that was steep and doing it a the highest tide I could arrange. The best ramp was 17th st causway in Fort Lauderdale as I recall. You would need a double axle trailer with extra high bunks. The CD has about one extra foot of draft than the Hunter and about 1000 lbs more weight. It would take a heafty truck with 4 wheel drive to make the pull. The most challenging part is floating the boat onto the trailer and then pulling it the final couple of feet onto the trailer.
None of this is seem out side the range of doable but its something that would take a bit of planning.
I assume you talked to Playboy about hauling this. I have hauled there several times and they are pretty flexible. They have a regular crane they use to pull masts that may be able to pull your boat if the stick is down using an inverted V sling.
Give me a call if you need a hand
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD 30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
I towed and launched a Hunter 23 for several years. I bought the boat without a trailer and bought a generic one that fitted it pretty well. It wasnt cheap as I recall. Pulling the boat onto a trailer involved finding a ramp that was steep and doing it a the highest tide I could arrange. The best ramp was 17th st causway in Fort Lauderdale as I recall. You would need a double axle trailer with extra high bunks. The CD has about one extra foot of draft than the Hunter and about 1000 lbs more weight. It would take a heafty truck with 4 wheel drive to make the pull. The most challenging part is floating the boat onto the trailer and then pulling it the final couple of feet onto the trailer.
None of this is seem out side the range of doable but its something that would take a bit of planning.
I assume you talked to Playboy about hauling this. I have hauled there several times and they are pretty flexible. They have a regular crane they use to pull masts that may be able to pull your boat if the stick is down using an inverted V sling.
Give me a call if you need a hand
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD 30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
WOW
Makes me appreciate what I have!
The local yard just hauled, painted, and launched my CD22. The price complete was $835.
I thought it was high but whatcha gonna do?
After seeing your post, Ron, I'm just grateful it was such a painless experience!
Gary
The local yard just hauled, painted, and launched my CD22. The price complete was $835.
I thought it was high but whatcha gonna do?
After seeing your post, Ron, I'm just grateful it was such a painless experience!
Gary
(reply)
A sling under the rudder is a bad idea. My Cape Dory owners manual states illustration 5.29 "Be careful not to locate the after strap under the rudder." I use a trailer and a 20' extension tongue that works at most good ramps and, by the way, I use all of that 20'. I pull the boat in/out 3 or 4 times a year, out now for Ike, so a trailer is very useful to me. I fabricated a cable and gin pole device that lets me raise and lower the mast singlehanded. Just some food for thought here. Cheers, Charlie
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
Hello Ron:
As you know, I live in Miami and have a Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender. I believe the keel and rudder are very similar to a CD 22 - only shorter.
When I took possession of her, I had her delivered to Grove Key Marina, Biscayne Bay, so that I could get a bottom paint job and some assistance with raising the mast, etc. Many members of the sailing club I joined recommended Grove Key Marina. They were spot on. 305.858.6527
While I have only been there once, my experience was excellent and I will go back. They have a mobile lift (several actually) with slings. They put one sling up forward and one aft (but forward of the rudder). The yard manager made sure the two slings were tied together (port and starboard) to prevent the forward sling from sliding forward and off as suggested by a prior post.
Once the paint job, mast raising and a few other items were taken care of (about 1 week), they used the same mobile lift/slings process to gently place my baby back in the water. I can get the exact price, but I believe it was $45 per day for my little Ty Weekender.
The yard manager is a sailor who lived aboard (or did a lot of offshore sailing) for many years. He was extremely knowledgeable and very patient with me and my "rookie" status. The yard crew seemed very nice. They had no problem leaving the Ty on the lift for a while to allow the painter to paint the bottom where the jack stand pads had been.
I do not know where you plan to haul (Lighthouse Point is some distance I know), but I strongly recommend Grove Key Marina-distance not withstanding.
If you want to discuss further, I believe you have my house and cell numbers, or send me a PM.
As you know, I live in Miami and have a Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender. I believe the keel and rudder are very similar to a CD 22 - only shorter.
When I took possession of her, I had her delivered to Grove Key Marina, Biscayne Bay, so that I could get a bottom paint job and some assistance with raising the mast, etc. Many members of the sailing club I joined recommended Grove Key Marina. They were spot on. 305.858.6527
While I have only been there once, my experience was excellent and I will go back. They have a mobile lift (several actually) with slings. They put one sling up forward and one aft (but forward of the rudder). The yard manager made sure the two slings were tied together (port and starboard) to prevent the forward sling from sliding forward and off as suggested by a prior post.
Once the paint job, mast raising and a few other items were taken care of (about 1 week), they used the same mobile lift/slings process to gently place my baby back in the water. I can get the exact price, but I believe it was $45 per day for my little Ty Weekender.
The yard manager is a sailor who lived aboard (or did a lot of offshore sailing) for many years. He was extremely knowledgeable and very patient with me and my "rookie" status. The yard crew seemed very nice. They had no problem leaving the Ty on the lift for a while to allow the painter to paint the bottom where the jack stand pads had been.
I do not know where you plan to haul (Lighthouse Point is some distance I know), but I strongly recommend Grove Key Marina-distance not withstanding.
If you want to discuss further, I believe you have my house and cell numbers, or send me a PM.
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Ron Brassord
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Nov 3rd, '05, 16:44
- Location: Cape Dory 22 Cd14s
CD 22 hauling
I appreciate all the suggestions and wish one would work for me.
Id love a trailer, but where I live it's so congested it's a problem parking a second cad, and trailers are zoned out.
Playboy Marina is the last of the good guys for do it yourself sailors. I've been going there for years with past bigger boats, and can't say enough praise for them. BUT, their lift will not handle anything less than 25'. I did my former CD 25 there a couple of years ago. The 22, just no way. {about ten years ago I did my 38 for about $400]
I am still looking for some one who has picked up a 22 with a sling under the bottom, not under the ruder, but aft of the rudder.
I think it can be done?
I also think I should bite the bullet and pay the piper. [but $50 a foot!!!]
Thanks Sea Hunt for the tip, but it's a long haul from Lighthouse Point to Miami, by boat or car. [You're a lucky sailer, what could be better than a Ty in Biscayne Bay?]
Tanks all Ron B CD 22 COOT
Id love a trailer, but where I live it's so congested it's a problem parking a second cad, and trailers are zoned out.
Playboy Marina is the last of the good guys for do it yourself sailors. I've been going there for years with past bigger boats, and can't say enough praise for them. BUT, their lift will not handle anything less than 25'. I did my former CD 25 there a couple of years ago. The 22, just no way. {about ten years ago I did my 38 for about $400]
I am still looking for some one who has picked up a 22 with a sling under the bottom, not under the ruder, but aft of the rudder.
I think it can be done?
I also think I should bite the bullet and pay the piper. [but $50 a foot!!!]
Thanks Sea Hunt for the tip, but it's a long haul from Lighthouse Point to Miami, by boat or car. [You're a lucky sailer, what could be better than a Ty in Biscayne Bay?]
Tanks all Ron B CD 22 COOT
Ron...
It has been so long since I've been on a 22, I can't remember much about it.
Here's what I would look at: Is there a bulkhead separating the lazarette from the rudder post area? If so, I think you'd be okay if your strap were under it. The reason being that the force would be carried not just by the hull near the rudder post but also by the deck/cockpit. It would be more distributed throughout the boat.
If not, then I'd be a little more nervous about it, worrying that there might be a tendency to pull the hull up the rudder post or the rudder upward.
I wouldn't be worried about the bow.
Tieing the straps not only together but towards the middle of th boat would be especially important, as you noted.
Here's what I would look at: Is there a bulkhead separating the lazarette from the rudder post area? If so, I think you'd be okay if your strap were under it. The reason being that the force would be carried not just by the hull near the rudder post but also by the deck/cockpit. It would be more distributed throughout the boat.
If not, then I'd be a little more nervous about it, worrying that there might be a tendency to pull the hull up the rudder post or the rudder upward.
I wouldn't be worried about the bow.
Tieing the straps not only together but towards the middle of th boat would be especially important, as you noted.
reply
I am not familiar with the CD22 - however the issue of safely hauling a boat is the sme regardless of design.
The strap goes under the keel in order to support the ballast weight in the slings. By placing the rear sling aft of the rudder you are suspending the ballast off the internal structure of the hull - this is very different than when in the water and dealing with both displacement and some degree of bouyancy. My guess is that this is a good way to create all sorts of potenial damage.
Sounds odd I realize, but try putting a posting on Craigslist or similar services asking what other folks do in the area - there has to be other folks in the same spot. Also, if there is a community boating center in the area check in with them - as non profits they can be very resourceful about doing thing a reasonably as possble.
The strap goes under the keel in order to support the ballast weight in the slings. By placing the rear sling aft of the rudder you are suspending the ballast off the internal structure of the hull - this is very different than when in the water and dealing with both displacement and some degree of bouyancy. My guess is that this is a good way to create all sorts of potenial damage.
Sounds odd I realize, but try putting a posting on Craigslist or similar services asking what other folks do in the area - there has to be other folks in the same spot. Also, if there is a community boating center in the area check in with them - as non profits they can be very resourceful about doing thing a reasonably as possble.
TJ
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1523
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Straps
Two years ago my CD-25 was hoisted from my Triad trailer.
(The full keel rests on a steel support)
The rear strap was aft the rudder, and the forward strap was
in front of the keel. This long experienced lift operator connected
the two straps topside so they would not splay out.
Worked fine.
Now at haul out at another marina this jerk of a hoist operator got one strap under the rudder and ruined it.
Well all's for the better, for now I have a SS rudder, so to answer your question, yes it can be done, but make sure of the strap placement, and be sure to connect them so they can not slip and spill the boat.
Dick
(The full keel rests on a steel support)
The rear strap was aft the rudder, and the forward strap was
in front of the keel. This long experienced lift operator connected
the two straps topside so they would not splay out.
Worked fine.
Now at haul out at another marina this jerk of a hoist operator got one strap under the rudder and ruined it.
Well all's for the better, for now I have a SS rudder, so to answer your question, yes it can be done, but make sure of the strap placement, and be sure to connect them so they can not slip and spill the boat.
Dick
another option...
would be to have a local welder make up a spreader bar for you, buy your own lifting straps, and lift the boat using ONE of the travelift slings.
The spreader bar could be in the form of an H, with connections for your straps at each of the four tips of the H and the pick point at the center of the thing. I've lifted my boat that way a number of times using a sailing club hoist.
Tod
The spreader bar could be in the form of an H, with connections for your straps at each of the four tips of the H and the pick point at the center of the thing. I've lifted my boat that way a number of times using a sailing club hoist.
Tod
Crane?
In the same vein as the previous post, have you considered hiring a small crane? I hired one to lift a boat more than twice as heavy as yours onto a trailer last year for $300. (The fee was for 2 hours, although the entire job only took about 30 minutes...) Riggers often have spreader bars, but if the rigger has long enough slings and you sling the boat where the bulkheads are you won't even need them for a lift that light.
Rather than a marine business, try a foundation contractor - they often have smaller cranes (5-10 ton) for setting forms and moving footings...
Good luck in your search for a solution!
Rather than a marine business, try a foundation contractor - they often have smaller cranes (5-10 ton) for setting forms and moving footings...
Good luck in your search for a solution!
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Ron Brassord
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Nov 3rd, '05, 16:44
- Location: Cape Dory 22 Cd14s
Do it youself 1 boatyard 0
We finally got the long over due bottom painted on our CD22. A friend with seawall davits offered them for a try at lifting COOT. By swinging the 20' spread of the arms in to a span of 10 feet, the lift points allowed for straps in just the right spots, forward of the rudder and just forwardof the mast. The boat cleared the seawall by about a foot allowing both sides to be painted. getting all areas was a bit difficult but doable.
It surely beat traveling over 50 miles, and a quicky job at a cost of over $1000. We also two coated and hope to make the job last a long time.
So, the answer is, fixed davits will work on a CD 22. I thank all for the advise and interest. Feel free to inquire if there are any questions.
Ron B
It surely beat traveling over 50 miles, and a quicky job at a cost of over $1000. We also two coated and hope to make the job last a long time.
So, the answer is, fixed davits will work on a CD 22. I thank all for the advise and interest. Feel free to inquire if there are any questions.
Ron B