I'm checking out wind vanes for my CD33. The Cape Horn is attractive because it looks good, is lighter, and it's less expensive. I haven't heard anything bad about them yet. Anybody know any reasons not to go with a Cape Horn? Any input on wind vanes is appreciated.
Ryan Turner
rturnertec@aol.com
Cape Horn Wind Vanes
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: Cape Horn Wind Vanes
Ryan,
I went to the Annapolis boat show this fall with the intent to decide on a wind vane for my cd36. I looked at Monitor, Flemming, a very nice cast aluminum model (name escapes me) and a Cape Horn. The Cape Horn was the first that I eliminated from contention. My reasons are that it will end up taking up too much room in the aft lazerette right where the hatch is and it seemed to have more friction in the mechanism than the others. Friction translates to insensitivity, especially down wind.
For what it is worth here are my comments on the other units.
One of my major concerns was damage to the mechanism when med-moored. The self steering system is the first line of defense against that cement wall if a storm comes up and something goes wrong in the night. At first I thought that the monitor would fare best in this situation because of it's external frame, but now I am not so certain. The problem is that the vane does not fold sideways, but ends up sticking out the back of the boat. I decided that if damage was to be the deciding issue I would just build a bolt-in-place frame for that situation.
Both the monitor and Flemming units had roller bearings. The flemming unit had greased metal bearings and the Monitor had plastic rollers. Both had very low friction. The aluminum unit had low friction despite the journal bearings, but who knows with a little dirt and salt how that would go. The thought of adding to the work load by having to disassemble and grease the Flemming unit is not appealing to me. The flemming rep said you do not have to, but I feel uncomfortable with that due to the salt water environment.
The mounting on all of the units seemed strong enough to the eye, but the aluminum unit (I am hoping that the name will come to me by the time I am done with this post) mounting arrangement was clearly the best in the eye of this mechanical/aeronautial engineer.
The ability to withstand damage to the oar if hit by an object in the water is different among the various units. The Flemming and the cast aluminum unit had mechanical means to release the oar if struck from the forward direction. The Monitor had a "fuse" tube which would bend out of the way if hit from any direction. I am not certian how the release mechanisms would work if the oar happened to be turned a fair amount to the side when struck or if struck from the side.
The cast aluminum unit seemed the cleanest and most straight foreward. The two negative points were the journal bearings and the fact that there would be no repairing of the castings if damaged.
The Monitor unit has much going for it. I dislike it's looks and it's inability to nicely fold the vane, but it has low friction and is mostly made from tubing so it could be repaired in some foreign port by a skilled craftsman. There are many thousands of Monitor's in service.
The Flemming unit seemed like it would hold up and it had low friction, but I am afraid of the metal bearings corroding into place if not disassembled and greased each year.
No, I have not made my decison.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I went to the Annapolis boat show this fall with the intent to decide on a wind vane for my cd36. I looked at Monitor, Flemming, a very nice cast aluminum model (name escapes me) and a Cape Horn. The Cape Horn was the first that I eliminated from contention. My reasons are that it will end up taking up too much room in the aft lazerette right where the hatch is and it seemed to have more friction in the mechanism than the others. Friction translates to insensitivity, especially down wind.
For what it is worth here are my comments on the other units.
One of my major concerns was damage to the mechanism when med-moored. The self steering system is the first line of defense against that cement wall if a storm comes up and something goes wrong in the night. At first I thought that the monitor would fare best in this situation because of it's external frame, but now I am not so certain. The problem is that the vane does not fold sideways, but ends up sticking out the back of the boat. I decided that if damage was to be the deciding issue I would just build a bolt-in-place frame for that situation.
Both the monitor and Flemming units had roller bearings. The flemming unit had greased metal bearings and the Monitor had plastic rollers. Both had very low friction. The aluminum unit had low friction despite the journal bearings, but who knows with a little dirt and salt how that would go. The thought of adding to the work load by having to disassemble and grease the Flemming unit is not appealing to me. The flemming rep said you do not have to, but I feel uncomfortable with that due to the salt water environment.
The mounting on all of the units seemed strong enough to the eye, but the aluminum unit (I am hoping that the name will come to me by the time I am done with this post) mounting arrangement was clearly the best in the eye of this mechanical/aeronautial engineer.
The ability to withstand damage to the oar if hit by an object in the water is different among the various units. The Flemming and the cast aluminum unit had mechanical means to release the oar if struck from the forward direction. The Monitor had a "fuse" tube which would bend out of the way if hit from any direction. I am not certian how the release mechanisms would work if the oar happened to be turned a fair amount to the side when struck or if struck from the side.
The cast aluminum unit seemed the cleanest and most straight foreward. The two negative points were the journal bearings and the fact that there would be no repairing of the castings if damaged.
The Monitor unit has much going for it. I dislike it's looks and it's inability to nicely fold the vane, but it has low friction and is mostly made from tubing so it could be repaired in some foreign port by a skilled craftsman. There are many thousands of Monitor's in service.
The Flemming unit seemed like it would hold up and it had low friction, but I am afraid of the metal bearings corroding into place if not disassembled and greased each year.
No, I have not made my decison.
Matt
Ryan Turner wrote: I'm checking out wind vanes for my CD33. The Cape Horn is attractive because it looks good, is lighter, and it's less expensive. I haven't heard anything bad about them yet. Anybody know any reasons not to go with a Cape Horn? Any input on wind vanes is appreciated.
Ryan Turner
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Russell
How realistic are the claims they can be used as spare rudde
Some of the wind vanes (I think Monitor) claim they can be used -- in a different mode -- for emergency steering, if your rudder fails. That is an attractive thought, but I have a difficult time believing that the small servo-pendulum (terminology?) can act as an effective rudder. This seems especially problematic if the problem with the main rudder locks it to one side or another.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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Ryan Turner
Re: Cape Horn Wind Vanes
Thanks for your input. I think the aluminum unit you mention must have been the WindPilot. I've eliminated them because I don't like the aluminum. With that construction you've got stainless steel and aluminum in close proximity. It seems to me that galvanic corrosion could become a problem with this unit. Also, it's harder to repair the cast aluminum. Is there something wrong with my thinking here?
rturnertec@aol.com
rturnertec@aol.com
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Ryan Turner
Did you look at fine adjustments?
Hi Matt,
I'm also wondering about making fine adjustments to your course while underway. I know how the Cape Horn does it but am not sure about the Monitor or Fleming. Do you have any input?
rturnertec@aol.com
I'm also wondering about making fine adjustments to your course while underway. I know how the Cape Horn does it but am not sure about the Monitor or Fleming. Do you have any input?
rturnertec@aol.com
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Mike
Re: Cape Horn Wind Vanes
Most interesting, now that you have eliminated aluminum what are you doing with the mast? I'm sure that a person with your background in metalurgy has heard of carbide perciptation in stainless weldments, as well as stress-corrosion also.Ryan Turner wrote: Thanks for your input. I think the aluminum unit you mention must have been the WindPilot. I've eliminated them because I don't like the aluminum. With that construction you've got stainless steel and aluminum in close proximity. It seems to me that galvanic corrosion could become a problem with this unit. Also, it's harder to repair the cast aluminum. Is there something wrong with my thinking here?
I've had the windpilot on my 28 for over a year now and love it.
Mike
mikieq@erols.com
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john churchill
aluminum Vanes
my 1989 Aries is cast aluminum. i think it would fare better than the rest of the boat against a seawall. the bearings are nylon sleeves and it has a fair amount of friction which inhibits downwind light air performance. i cannot get the thing disassembled easily due to corrosion i assume around the ss set screws. the manufacturer recommends using heat (torch) but that would melt the bushings, and then if i still could not get it apart... at any rate, i think cast aluminum would be great if the bearings were good. the other thing is weight. the aries is heavy (70 lb) right on the tail.
john
john
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: How realistic are the claims they can be used as spare r
The monitor "spare rudder" is a separate piece, much larger than the oar that normally installs in the unit. It is also a very significant additional cost. Even if the oar can take the loads and be locked out so that it does not swing, the mechanism that you would use to turn it is marginal for the job on most units. My feeling is that if you would like a spare rudder, make and test one that is separate from the wind vane and put it on a set of rock-solid mounts. You can probably make one that can be dis-assembled and fit nicely into a closet or a locker somewhere and save yourself some dollars in the process.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Matt
Russell wrote: Some of the wind vanes (I think Monitor) claim they can be used -- in a different mode -- for emergency steering, if your rudder fails. That is an attractive thought, but I have a difficult time believing that the small servo-pendulum (terminology?) can act as an effective rudder. This seems especially problematic if the problem with the main rudder locks it to one side or another.
Thoughts?
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Matt Cawthorne
Yes, it was a WindPilot.
The folks at the Wind Pilot booth had a display unit that they claimed had seen a years service in salt water and it looked nearly perfect. No sign of corrosion anywhere. They claimed to be using a very corrosion resistant version of aluminum, and supposedly only have steel in contact with the aluminum at the mounting bolts. I did not verify this, but John's comment about the set screws leavs me wondering. I must admit it is a nice looking unit and it impressed me very much. The rep at the booth claimed that if you sent pictures of the installed unit to them so they could verify it's correct installation that they have a policy of a lifetime warranty that they have honored in all cases to date. I think the written warranty is shorter.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Matt
Ryan Turner wrote: Thanks for your input. I think the aluminum unit you mention must have been the WindPilot. I've eliminated them because I don't like the aluminum. With that construction you've got stainless steel and aluminum in close proximity. It seems to me that galvanic corrosion could become a problem with this unit. Also, it's harder to repair the cast aluminum. Is there something wrong with my thinking here?
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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MATT
Re: Did you look at fine adjustments?
Ryan,
They all had fine adjustments that looked adequate. WindPilot, Monitor, and Flemming all have web sites. I can only remember two off the top of my head. I will try and check when I get home tonight and post the other.
www.windpilot.com (click on the windvane with the us flag on it)
www.flemingselfsteering.com
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
They all had fine adjustments that looked adequate. WindPilot, Monitor, and Flemming all have web sites. I can only remember two off the top of my head. I will try and check when I get home tonight and post the other.
www.windpilot.com (click on the windvane with the us flag on it)
www.flemingselfsteering.com
Matt
Ryan Turner wrote: Hi Matt,
I'm also wondering about making fine adjustments to your course while underway. I know how the Cape Horn does it but am not sure about the Monitor or Fleming. Do you have any input?
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Bill
Re: Did you look at fine adjustments?
Monitor is www.selfsteer.com
BS
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
BS
MATT wrote: Ryan,
They all had fine adjustments that looked adequate. WindPilot, Monitor, and Flemming all have web sites. I can only remember two off the top of my head. I will try and check when I get home tonight and post the other.
www.windpilot.com (click on the windvane with the us flag on it)
www.flemingselfsteering.com
Matt
Ryan Turner wrote: Hi Matt,
I'm also wondering about making fine adjustments to your course while underway. I know how the Cape Horn does it but am not sure about the Monitor or Fleming. Do you have any input?
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
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Ryan Turner
I don't have any background in metallurgy...
and I never claimed to. Further, I never said anything about eliminating aluminum from my boat. All I know is that if you don't do a good job of isolating stainless from aluminum you'll get corrosion. I'm sure the WindPilot units are great. Glad to get a response from someone who has one. Could you perhaps tell us all why you chose that unit over some of the others?
rturnertec@aol.com
rturnertec@aol.com
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Mike
Re: I don't have any background in metallurgy...
Well to be exact Windpilot is made of Almag5 an alloy of aluminum, magnesium,and silicon. The result is a product that is very corrosion resistant and close to stainless on the galvanic scale. In addition
Windpilot insulates the stainless bolts on the unit with UHMW washers.
I selected the unit for it's compact size and simplicity of design.The pendulm is not limited to just 60 degrees of travel like the monitor's and when it is retracted it doesn't stick out behind the boat three feet. With a drill and a file I think I could make allmost any part on it.Plain bearings reduce the number of parts on the unit.
Most importantly; it sails the hell out of my boat, from 5 knots to 55
knots if the boat is setup correctly it has the helm under control. This fall I sailed about thirty miles in 30 knot wind and 4-5 foot quartering seas, the boat headed up 15-20 degrees with every sea and the windpilot countered every move, I just sat in the cockpit under the dodger and marveled.(and hung on)
Mike.
Mikieq@erols.com
Windpilot insulates the stainless bolts on the unit with UHMW washers.
I selected the unit for it's compact size and simplicity of design.The pendulm is not limited to just 60 degrees of travel like the monitor's and when it is retracted it doesn't stick out behind the boat three feet. With a drill and a file I think I could make allmost any part on it.Plain bearings reduce the number of parts on the unit.
Most importantly; it sails the hell out of my boat, from 5 knots to 55
knots if the boat is setup correctly it has the helm under control. This fall I sailed about thirty miles in 30 knot wind and 4-5 foot quartering seas, the boat headed up 15-20 degrees with every sea and the windpilot countered every move, I just sat in the cockpit under the dodger and marveled.(and hung on)
Mike.
Mikieq@erols.com
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John Nutta;;
Re: How realistic are the claims they can be used as spare r
Hey Russell,Russell wrote: Some of the wind vanes (I think Monitor) claim they can be used -- in a different mode -- for emergency steering, if your rudder fails. That is an attractive thought, but I have a difficult time believing that the small servo-pendulum (terminology?) can act as an effective rudder. This seems especially problematic if the problem with the main rudder locks it to one side or another.
Thoughts?
You got an e-mail address? I have something to send to you.
John
nuttallj@msn.com
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Russell
Here it is ..
rturpin [at] clickfeed [dot] com
This is my third time to try posting this .. the board server seems to be acting funny today. I also sent you email. One way or another, it should get through.
This is my third time to try posting this .. the board server seems to be acting funny today. I also sent you email. One way or another, it should get through.