Seeping Underwater Hull and Leaking Bilge Drain - Typhoon

[dmdoiron]

I'm a new owner of an old Typhoon - a 1969 Weekender. Although the boat is in pretty good shape, I've decided to leave it on the cradle in my backyard until next spring. In the meantime, I'm using whatever spare time I have to sail my Daysailer II while Maine's short summer is still with us.

In the meantime, I'm making a list of things to fix on the Typhoon during the fall and spring and trying to thing through how to do them. My first priority is the underwater hull. A couple of weeks ago, I filled the bilge with water to see what would happen. Almost immediately, several spots - 5 or 6 - on the underwater hull became moist, but never to the point of truly leaking, and the bilge drain began a slow leak.

I'm pretty much a novice with fixing boats - only a year of fixing up leaks in my DS II - so am not sure how serious the "seepage" is. The spots are only nickel or quarter size, and again the spots just stayed moist - they never ran or leaked. Should I be concerned about them? I'm thinking I could just paint the area where they all occur (which is about 2 feet square just before the rudder) with barrier paint. Does that make sense? Any advice?

With the leaking bilge drain, I've already unscrewed the bronze fitting from the hull and took it out, with the idea that I'll just reseal that. Is it as simple as that, or should I be watching out for something to make sure that I don't make the problem worse than it was. The bilge drain is apparently a modification and not original to the boat and the fitting is bronze. It was screwed to the hull with what looks like four bronze screws.

Thanks for any advice you can give me. I suspect I'll have more questions for you as I make my way up the boat.

[Ned Crockett]

Dennis:

The bilge drain is an addition for the purpose of draining the bilge when out of the water. The only reason I can think of for having it is if there are deck. hatch, cockpit, etc. leaks that allow water to enter the bilge when high and dry. That being said, I think my first effort would be to find and fix the causes for the intrusion of water into the bilge. You said you filled the bilge and discovered the damp spots. Did you fill the storage bins too? You may have more spots than you know. If that is the case, a total barrier coat would be in order.

My Ty is a 1972 Weekender and the bilge stays dry.

My father-in-law was always willing to give me advice, but concluded with "free advice is worth what you pay for it"!

Good luck with your project.

Ned

[dmdoiron]

Thanks, Ned. No, I only filled the bilge to around the cockpit drain thruhulls. But before I make the effort to put in that much water , as a general proposition, do you think it is a good idea to apply barrier coats to a hull that is almost 40 years old no matter what condition the hull might be in? It seems like it might be a good preventative measure.

[Oswego John]

Hi Dennis,

First off. What kind of hull drain do you have? Is it one of those spring loaded kind with a tee handle that either catches open or springs shut?

Ned makes a good point saying to find and fix the cause(s) of water intrusion.

Generally speaking, barrier coat is applied to the exterior of the hull. You point out that after you put water inside of the hull, damp spots appeared on the outside of the hull without any dripping or running water.

I could be wrong but this seems to tell me that you have several spots on the inside of the hull that are porous. If it were me, I would concentrate on finding and sealing the troublesome area on the inside of the hull first. It doesn't hurt to barrier coat the external hull, but don't neglect the inside of the hull either.

You might wash thoroughly and then rinse and dry the inside area in question. Remove any paint or other coating until you get down to bare glass. Carefully inspect the hull for any dry areas where the fabric or mesh wasn't wetted down sufficiently with epoxy or poly.

I think that it might be smart to cover the area in doubt with an extra membrane of glass and epoxy and see if that doesn't eliminate the wet spots. Make sure that the hull is thoroughly dried out before you do this. Then decide on a total barrier coat.

Good luck,
O J

[CruiseAlong]

My guess on the wet spots for an area of 2 ft sq is in a location which is just forward of the rudder, there may have been a less than perfect resin mixture during the layup of the hull or the glass was not fully wetted out leaving dry channels in which the water could seep.
I had a similiar situation on my CD26 where I had some wet spots appear on the inside of the boat (when in the water) and...I have heard of this on CD25Ds where the "blue osmosis" was appearing in spots on the inside of the boat. The question of what to do is somewhat dependent of the integrity of the glass laminate structure in that 2 foot area. By that I mean that the uncatalized resin surrounding the glass fibers have all leached out over the years covering the full area or just one spot and the water is being distributed over a wider area behind the gel coat via the gel coat mat. A sound hammer rapping (as a surveyor normally would do) looking for a sharp crack sound or thud would normally indicate the possible extent of the problem. A moisture measurement might also be beneficial. The key here is to make sure that the strength of the hull has not been affected ( a simple barrier coat would not correct the integrity of the hull if affected). In my case I had weeping at the turn of the bilge just forward of the companion way stair. I chose to grind out the single spot location from the outside, scarfing out a 12 to 1 ratio bevel in the laminate for an approximate 1" diameter leak affected area inside the boat. I used all West epoxy in my layup of mat/glass and because of the 3/8 inch hull at that point it gave me an outside grind scraf area of ~ 1 foot diameter. What did I find? Some small air voids and a small area of dry glass fibers. But this may not be your case. I would sound out the area with a plastic hammer, measure the moisture ( you might be able to do this with plastic sheet and tape if you do not have access to a meter). I would take off the bottom paint in that area for look for structural cracking. Based on that information and perhaps a look by a good surveyor for this specific problem would be of benefit. As for the drain, I would suspect a new rubber seal for the bronze plug is in order.
Dana

[Ned Crockett]

Dennis:

OJ and Dana are right on with their advice. The area you refer to would be difficult to get to from the inside. My thinking was to try to prevent further intrusion to the bilge and bottom (if it goes thru from the inside, it must intrude from the outside too) as inexpensively and with as little effort as possible. It would cost a small fortune to have a yard do the work Dana described. If I had the problems you described, I would factor into the equation how much I would be willing to spend to have a near perfect old boat. I doubt there are many of the 2000+ Tys produced that have no soft spots or moisture problems. Mine certainly does and I expect it to be sailed by someone long after I have taken that "eternal cruise"! The purpose of a barrier coat, as I understand it, is to prevent blisters and intruding water. So, if you can keep a dry bilge and prevent further water seepage --- problem solved, enjoy your Ty!! Only you will know the hull is drying out!

Ned

[dmdoiron]

Thanks OJ and Dana for your replies.

OJ asked about the bilge drain. I'm sure it must have a technical name, but I'll have to describe it. It's a bronze fitting that is attached with 4 screws to the hull; the water is drained by removing a threaded bolt/plug (about 3/4" in diameter) using an allen wrench. The sealant that was used appears to be a rubber-type of compound.

The wet spots I've identified so far are deep in the keel section of the hull, so I don't think I can do anything about fixing the inside surface of the hull as suggested by OJ - or can I?

I've tapped the hull as suggested by Dana and the good news is that it all sounded very solid - no dull thuds. So, for now, I'll fill the bilge and up to the waterline, remove the bottom paint in the areas already showing moisture to see what I can find, and read up on how to measure moisture content.

Thanks again for your all your help.

[dmdoiron]

Thanks, Ned, for your latest message. Our last messages must have crossed in cyberspace. I share your general take on this since I need to do all the work myself as almost all my "boat" money has been and is still being diverted to college for the kiddies! So I guess I'm striving for safety and preventing future bigger problems over perfection at this point. But reaching the right balance is hard to figure out, especially for a new owner like me.

[Dick Villamil]

The drain plug in the bilge is called a garboard drain. It was probably installed by a previous owner due to the persistant weeping on the hull. I too had a similar problem and after drilling into the area forward of the rudder I discovered that the fiberglass matrix was like a soft sponge foam. Evidently caused by water in the resin/glass matrix that destroyed the resin mix. Mine was probably assisted by freezing. Nevertheless I ground it all out down to solid glass - by then I could stick my fist clear throung the hull on both sides. After filling with a resin/glass mixture I laid on a few layers of glass cloth with resin and a filler. After sanding and repairing, the keel was stronger than new. I sanded the entire hull and then filled in where the hull had separated from the keel ballast by injecting resin through small holse drilled into voids that I found by tapping with a plastic screw driver handle. After all voids were located and filled I added 3 or 4 coats of West Marine barrier coat (I used the entire kit) and painted with bottom paint. The bilge is DRY DRY DRY - and the hull is smooth. The project was done in the spring after letting the boat dry out for the winter and early spring. Injecting alcohol or acetone to help remove the water was a big help in hastening the dry out process.

[wingreen]

When I was repairing the aft deck on my Ty a few months back, I discovered a tiny little leak about 6" beneath the waterline dead center under the fantail - right on the v-shaped crease on the counter. I discovered this accidentally when I poured in the Rot Doctor's CPES epoxy sealer, which leaked through the aft deck and began running down the inside of the hull. Later that day I noticed some of the sealer leaking down the outside of the fantail and dripping down the rudder.

The good news is that the CPES formula sealed the leak, but I also wonder if there are other such leaks, which unfortunately can only be fixed by filling the entire inside of the boat up to the waterline - obviously impractical and disastrous. In your case, I wonder if pouring or spraying a gneerous quantity of the stuff into the bilge might accomplish the same thing?