Installing New Seacock's (A New Photo Based How To Article)

[Troy Scott]

Greg Kozlowski,

You seem VERY happy with your old Spartan seackocks, so it seems logical to ask for your input. How often do you service your Spartan seacocks? Do you service the Spartan seacocks in place, or do you have to remove them? Do you haul the boat or do you plug from the outside for service? Do you grease them by putting a zerk fitting where the drain plug fits? I'm like Number 5. I need INPUT.

Other Folks,

How do you service, and how often do you service OTHER BRANDS and STYLES of seacocks?

[Cathy Monaghan]

Seacocks should be all bronze or marelon -- no stainless steel.

Anyway, Groco has recalled their seacocks. See:
http://www.groco.net/svc-bltn/cat-svc-bltn-2-08.htm

I know somebody going through the replacement. He couldn't remove them and had to hire the yard to do it. Groco would pay for the replacement of the fittings but not for the labor.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Russell]

Troy,

I would have to agree with the general idea that you are probably far better off with your old spartan seacocks then with new grocos. But, I nor has anyone else here, seen the actual state of your seacocks. Perhaps they are half eaten by electrolysis? No matter how well made any seacock will see its demise this way.

But even if some electolisys is present, one of the things that make spartans so great is how heavy they are made. Surface corrosion does not spell their death. Even corrosion on the drum can be fixed with lapping compound. You wont find a ball valve on the market that can stand up to the abuse and neglect of a spartan seacock.

They certainly have their downsides though. I take apart and rebuild all of them everytime I haul out (once a year). If not regularly worked they will indeed freeze. They are also more prone to weeping then a ball valve.

But so long as its not frozen open and a hose pops off, weeping is about as bad as it gets with them. Total failure is next to impossible if they are not half eaten away due to neglect. But with ball valves total failure is not all that uncommon of a story, especially when you consider mixed metals and plastics are integral in all of them made today.

Again, they freeze easily, but in no way does a frozen seacock mean its unservicable (though a ball valve is less likely to recover from freezing). If you are removing them entirely, dump them in a bucket of vinigar over night, you will be suprised at how easy they can unfreeze and how solid they still look after some cleaning.

Even if your spartans were neglected to the point of needing replacement, I would personally still opt to replace them with new spartans. They are low tech but fool proof.

[tmsc]

Marine Sail,

Brand and type of seacock aside, I think you did a good job on the essay. I did not see mention of it, if you did and I missed it please excuse me. you may want to mention orientation of the drain plug and reconnecting the bonding wire if applicable. Thank you for discussing NPS and NPT . I wish I had a dollar for every time............

Cathy,

Seacocks should be all bronze or marelon -- no stainless steel.

You deserve a medal. Thank goodness those things are not becoming vogue on sailboats like powerboats today.

Troy,

I service my Spartan's once a year. So far I have had good luck with lithium based EP grease. As an experiment I tried the moly based exposed bearing grease like used on some drilling apparatus. I was not that pleased with it though. Great stuff but to much of an adhesive quality IMHO. Things would get stiff after a few months. Just too much for the application and too much like 5200. Gets on everything and does not like to come off. Yes, I service them with the boat in the water too.

Other types:

Tapered drum style: Exercise monthly grease annually.

Ball valve style: Exercise once a month grease at haul out, approx every 3-4 years, with teflon grease.

Gate valves: Exercise my legs and arms by running to the trash can and throwing them in it.

When it comes to Marelon, I try to exercise and grease them a bit more especially large ones like a head outlet. I have broke a few handles and that is definitely a weak point. I have read that the problem is that the material is a little water permeable thus the ball swells a little causing stiffness. The results are obvious. Broken handles. I don't know for a fact if the theory has been absolutely proven, but makes sense in a way to me. FRP boats you know. Thats one theory anyway. I had a bad experience with them on a previous boat too similar to sgbernd but not as bad. Too bad to, I really like the idea.

Well thats my routine everyone have a good day.

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

Based on my lifetime of experience working on fine old things (pipe organs and etc.) I have learned two lessons well:

1. Sometimes a new way isn't a better way. On the other hand....

2. Sometimes a new way can breathe new life into a functioning antique while retaining all the original fine characteristics.

Meaning: We often find that some new material meant to replace a traditional one turns out to be no better, and sometimes introduces NEW problems. We don't always know what went into the original materials selection.

OTOH, sometimes modern materials and/or techniques allow us to help an antique work better than it did when new! I have to believe that the original builder would have utilized the "better way" had it been available. Which brings me to my question:

What research has been done to find a better lubricant for the Spartan seacocks? I believe there has to be something better. The valve design is ancient, but sturdy. There MUST be a modern lubricant that would be more-or-less permanent, waterproof, SLICK, etc., and not cost an arm and a leg. Even if it is really expensive, if it's permanent, so what?

[Bill Cochrane]

Troy,

Based on several recommendations on this board, I switched from the Spartan grease to Morey's Red (at your friendly Napa auto parts, for one source). Cheap (still working on a five-year or so old tube that's half full); no weeping yet; no wear on the seacocks (that were not in the best of shape when I got the boat).

I still service the seacocks (all original Spartan bronze) every year during winter storage, though.

It would be tempting to try for a couple or three seasons out of the stuff...it's sticky as all get out and there is plenty left to be cleaned out. But the annual routine gives me a chance to examine the seacock closely, check for weeping, check the bonding wire, and adjust for proper amount of tension.

There are one or two that are a real * to get to, and it would be even more tempting to skip those.

And then find out some day when you need it to work that it doesn't.

The hour or so it takes to maintain all seven of 'em is worthwhile, in my book. If there was such a thing as a no-maintenance for life seacock, I'd prob'ly find a way to check it anyway.

[Neil Gordon]

OTOH, sometimes modern materials and/or techniques allow us to help an antique work better than it did when new! I have to believe that the original builder would have utilized the "better way" had it been available.

Part of the difficulty in coming to a conclusion is that the passage of time can make a significant difference in material structure and performance. My boat is 31 years old; same for the Spartan seacocks. I'd like to know that if I had "better way" seacocks, that they'd not fail just because they passed some arbitrary birthday.

By the way, I use Morey's red... got a tube years ago and have most of it left. Servicing seacocks once a year, a tube of Morey's will last about a lifetime and a half.

[bottomscraper]

Troy,

It would be tempting to try for a couple or three seasons out of the stuff...it's sticky as all get out and there is plenty left to be cleaned out. But the annual routine gives me a chance to examine the seacock closely, check for weeping, check the bonding wire, and adjust for proper amount of tension.

There are one or two that are a real * to get to, and it would be even more tempting to skip those.

And then find out some day when you need it to work that it doesn't.

The hour or so it takes to maintain all seven of 'em is worthwhile, in my book. If there was such a thing as a no-maintenance for life seacock, I'd prob'ly find a way to check it anyway.

Bill,

I do this each fall. I wash the parts in mineral spirits, inspect hoses, clamps, etc . I lapped one using water based valve grinding compound last fall, that fixed with the one weeping seacock. I use Morey's also. I like the simple design of the Spartan Seacocks. I also use this time to inspect and lube the steering cables and look over everything. For planning purposes I allow myself a full day for these tasks. Sometimes I'm luckky and it only takes a few hours.

Rich

[Kurt]

100% bronze tapered barrel seacocks such as those manufactured by Spartan are the ultimate plumbing valves for beneath the water line applications. Properly maintained they will last a lifetime. They are simple in design, completely serviceable and bullet proof. The only achilles heel in the design is that they are easily damaged if left in the closed position during the winter with water trapped inside.

[Troy Scott]

Kurt,

Spartan Seacocks are great, no argument there. My concern is in learning what is the best, most permanent, maintenance reducing lubricant for these fine old antiques. Modern technology is amazing and we should take advantage of it. It could very well be that there is nothing better than Morey's Red. But if there IS something better, I want to know and I want to use it. What do you use?

[Steve Laume]

I am just about finished with my short haul. After two years in the water, Raven was looking a bit shabby. Nothing serious but she wasn't all bright and shiny. One of the tasks on my list was cleaning and greasing the seacocks. I used NAPA red grease which comes in a tub last time. After two years the seacocks were still functioning well without weeping. There were one or two tiny barnecals inside the barrels that did not effect performance. I cleaned them all and polished the exposed handle in the head. They went back together easily and all is well in the world. One more thing I did do this time is to stamp the location of each barrel into the bronze. You do not want to mix these up!

So like many things it might be best to assume that these seacocks and the Morey's Red Grease is not broken. That is there really isn't all that much room for improvement. That grease stays on there, allows the barrels to rotate and nothing corrodes inside. The fact that they need to be serviced at all could be looked at as a benefit as it forces even the most complacent of us to take a good look at things in a rather critical area.

If only there was something that worked so well for the prop, Steve.

[Maine Sail]

I chose to do my Spartan's yearly and in doing so they never required a re-lap. Sure it's a PITA to clean and re-grease, on some boats, but if you do, the Spartan Seacock's could out last your boat. We should keep in, mind that the grease Spartan recommends is a white lithium base and they strongly advise against any of the "synthetic" greases like Morey's. Morey's is great grease but I found the valves operate smoother with the Spartan grease, or a quality white lithium, than with synthetics. Also the proper lapping compound is a 320 grit. Spartan sells it or you can buy Colver Compound in 320 grit.

On our current boat I went the flanged adapter route. This allows a simple, even in water, valve change if the need arises. In less than five minutes I can have a new valve installed and that to me made sense this time around. If you have Spartan's MAINTAIN THEM!!!! The Spartan's are great but VERY expensive these days so you don't want to have to replace one due to getting lazy with maintenance. I recently serviced a boat where three of the Spartans were toast due to improper maintenance, corrosion and cone and valve body scoring that was too deep for lapping out. This turned a 10 minute per valve job into a two day job $$$$...

[Troy Scott]

Maine Sail,

I can imagine various ways to replace the valve while the boat is afloat, from diving and plugging the hole from outside to just being VERY fast in a tight spot (that's how I used to clean a certain knotmeter spinner). I'm curious as to exactly how you do it. It might be worth a video!

[Troy Scott]

Steve,

How about a daily application of the Morey's Red Miracle Salve?
(ducking and running...) Just Kidding! Just Kidding!

[Kurt]

Troy,
For the past 30 years I've used Dow Corning silicone grease. It's designed to lubricate (guess what?) water valves and O rings. I service my seacocks every 5 years. When I dissassemble them for service, the grease looks like it was put in yesterday. Admittedly, the grease is hard to find and is expensive. But a single tube of it lasted me 25 years. Also, I boat in fresh water and have a six month sailing season. I'm not sure it that makes much of a difference.
Kurt