Steering a 28 in reverse

[eb1smith]

I don't know too much about the CD-28's but the CD-31 do require practice to get them to go astern. I have found that by turning the wheel all the way to starboard first will offset the prop walk. The rudder will become effective when you hit steerage speed and you will have to keep an eye on you bow because once it does fall off too far you can not bring it back.

E. Smith
s/v Larissa

[D Rush]

My understanding from my pitiful research on the internet while looking for a sailboat is that full keel boats do not "behave well" in reverse. The only predictable behavior is that the skipper gets nervous.
With my CD25 and a 9 hp outboard, I have only had success when using a stern line. I guess Success is generous, maybe "less trouble" would be more accurate. I successfully use reverse to slow my CD25 when slowly motoring forward. I find that there are just "too many" factors (winds, current, speed, etc) coupled with the unpredictable behavior of the full keel when trying to back my CD25 to move in reverse safely.

[j2sailor]

I wouldn't recommend docking in reverse with any sailboat, especially one with a full or modified full keel design. It'll be hit and miss most of the time. A fin keeler might be encouraged to enter her slip stern first, but this is often a matter of knowing the boat intimately. Dock bow first if possible. If not possible, here are two techniques to try:

Maneuver to bring the pivot point alongside an outer corner piling. Have one person man a fender and hold it at the contact point.
This places the vessel across the slip, with the stern canted slightly inward. Turn the wheel fully away from the piling, or hold the tiller all the way over toward the piling. Maintain this throughout the maneuver. Each time you back, during the backing and filling, creep her astern a few inches deeper into the slip. She'll go in nicely, it just takes a while. Then again, what's the rush?

This is a very controlled method, but takes a good deal of practice. We taught this method to coxswain trainees in the Coast Guard. It worked in any condition of wind or current. Back in my day, no candidate graduated to a twin screw cadillac until he'd fully qualified on a single screw boat in all capacities.

Another method, which I haven't tried at a slip, is to round up square to the slip, drop the hook on short stay and ease back while veering scope. Keep moderate tension on the scope. Remember to bring the tackle aboard as soon as you tie up to prevent another vessel transiting the channel tripping over your rode.

Best - J.

[Phil Shedd]

For me backing into the slip has become a bit of a game. First one must check the wind . You want to turn away from it . The wind is usually from south to south west. I proceed toward my slip by keeping close to the the slips that are on my side . By now I am in neutral but with some way on. When my mast is at the middle of the slip before mine I turn hard to port and give her a little shot of forward. Since the boat rotates some what around her middle this leaves my stern facing my slip.

Now a hard shot of reverse to kill the forward motion . When the forward motion has stopped, idle back still in reverse. The wheel is now midship or slightly to starboard. The boat now is backing up slowly. There usually is some steerage but use only a small amount of rudder. You should be now heading for the slip. If the boat is to much to the starboard give her a hard shot of reverse to bring her over to the port. ( say 3 seconds of prop walk). By now you should be up to the pilings . Once you are through the up rights shift to neutral and grab a spring line to guide your self in . TOUCH DOWN

This works well for me. It always works really well when there is nobody around and not so well when people are watching.

Phil

[mgphl52]

Hey Phil!

Don't you just hate it when all of the "judges" are just watching and no one lends a hand... especially when they know you're solo!

-michael ("Been there, Bumped that...")

[BarbofCapeCod]

Thanks to all for your prompt and frank responses.

My understanding from my pitiful research on the internet while looking for a sailboat is that full keel boats do not "behave well" in reverse.

We owned a Westsail 32 twenty-five years ago, a full keeled 20,000 lb beast, which backed easily and precisely, so I suspect it may have something to do with the relative size of the rudder, especially since several posts noted the importance of increased speed combined with reduced or no prop movement.

In addition to planning to avoid situations that require maneuvering while backing, I will try to practice as suggested.

[j2sailor]

Hi Bill,
Prop size is another issue. Did you have a large or three blade prop on your Westsail? With the Cape Dory 27, we had to use about one third to one half throttle in reverse when backing out of the slip. In any kind of cross wind, anything less wasn't sufficient to pivot and square her in the narrow canal.
Best - J

[Neil Gordon]

... it can not be controlled predictably when going astern.

With more experience, you'l learn that it's 100% predictable but not 100% controllable. The boat will react similarly in similar conditions. After careful observation, I have concluded that it does not, in fact, have a mind of its own.

[Doug Gibson]

I've been (very) slowing moving up the 'reverse steering' learning curve. Unless I'm deliberating trying to roate the boat clockwise in reverse, I find that short, strong bursts on the trottle work best to gain some steerage. With the prop in neutral, I then have some degree of control while backing. However, once the wind catches the bow, I have to go with the flow. If there's room, its often easier when backing to rotate 270 degrees clockwise (stbd) than 90 degrees counter-clockwise (port).

[CruiseAlong]

Both my CD26 (fixed position outboard) and CD31 inboard respond the same way. The successful backing direction will be influenced by wind direction. For example, if your boat faces north, bow into into a slip and there is a west/south west wind coming over the port side or it is calm, there is no problem backing to port. If a good wind is coming coming over the starboard side, then it will be problems backing to port...it will want to back straight or back into the wind If one wants to turn the bow into the wind coming from the starboard side, one must turn the wheel completely to steer to starboard while moving back (don't be surprised that the boat will still be moving back straight even when you turned to starboard) and apply a fairly good short forward thrust of the engine but not enough to stop backward motion. Keeping the wheel position the same (steering to starboard) follow this up by just a slightly longer backward direction with the same thrust force. This will keep the boat moving backward when you have the room, but you should now see the bow turning to starboard. Repeat the shorter forward thrust again and longer back thrust if necessary to keep the boat continuing to turn. The key is you never move the wheel from the full over position. As the boat has more turning space ahead of it compared to the back then start to shorten the backward thrust time as comparted to the forward. This will start the forward movement movement instead of backing. If one finds that you accidently are facing the wrong way in the narrow slip channel and the boat put its stern into the wind then move to the left side of the slip channel moving forward, turn hard to starboard to begin the turning boat rotation to starboard, then begin the backward/forward/backward/etc thrusts to maintain your turning turning. The length of each back/forward thrust is adjusted to maintain your position in the slip channel without going into the slips. The CD31 has surprised me with a very short turning radius, just over one boat length in the slip channel. As the wind becomes stronger, so does the base line amount of thrust applied. Practice all you can....best of luck.

[Troy Scott]

How small is too small for a bow thruster? Is a CD36 too small? A 33? 30? What have you folks done in this area of control?

[Steve Laume]

Wouldn't a bow thruster take all the sport out of docking? If parallel parking was your priority and money was not an object, a thruster might be a good idea. I don't think it is a matter of how big the boat is so much as how much boring a big hole in the forward portion of the keel would effect the sailing ability of our boats. Think about it, we are trying to mount depth sounders inside the hull to reduce the disturbance of flow over the hull. Those big holes can not be good for sailing. I do have to admit it would be way cool to play with some thrusters. It just doesn't seem worth the trade offs.

I always think of Star Trek when I hear, "thrusters".

Not everything should be easy,
Steve.

[Troy Scott]

Steve,

Once, years ago, I had an idea for a retractable, rotatable fan that could pop up out of the deck and help out in tight maneuvering situations. No holes through the hull! Anyway, obviously it didn't make me wealthy.....

I like to singlehand. A long time ago I had decided that a 32 foot sailboat was as big as I should try to handle alone. Now, I'm older and planning to do it in a 36 foot boat! Dumb, huh? Anyway, forgive the occasional wild-eyed wish for "exotic" conveniences that might make this singlehanding thing easier. I'm all about anything that will give me more freedom and help keep me from embarrassing myself while not breaking the bank and not making the boat ugly.

I don't like the idea of that long hole through the bow. There has to be a better way. I've wondered if some kind of higher-pressure setup sending water through small jets would work. It would certainly be hydrodynamically cleaner.

[Steve Laume]

Troy, right you are. There has got to be a better way to deal with this problem. The only reason bow thrusters work is because the boats they are mostly found on can afford the loss of performance they create while underway.

Nothing maneuvers better than my CD-10 with oars, Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

There has got to be a better way to deal with this problem.

Sail more and dock less.

Let's stop calling this a problem. Sailboats are all about compromise. If your highest priority is a boat that goes backward better than it goes forward, and looks bad doing it, there are plenty available.

While we're at it, what about the pesky problem that sailboats can't point into the wind. You can solve that with a motor. Going too slow? Bigger motor! Oh... the hull speed problem. I know... change to a planing hull! Ooops... the problem of poor visibility at high speed. I know, remove the mast, boom and rigging! If I keep going I could probably solve a dozen or more problems while creating only one new one. Gas at $5 a gallon.

By the way, I solved most of my backing "problems" just by looking at the windex before I let the dock lines go.