The standard reefing proceedure is to run the reefing line through the fitting on the leach, insert it into a cheeck block and then forward to a cleat.
Has anyone tried this: run the reefing line through the fitting on the leech, but rather than going through the cheek block and then to the cleat, simply put the cleat where the chhek block would be?
Does anyone see a problem with this approach?
Thanks,
JBA
reefing
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ron Churgin
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Jul 30th, '07, 10:56
- Location: "Courtship" Allied Princess Cutter,Oceanside, NY
One problem is that you usually have to go to the mast to hook the reefing grommet or ring (on the luff) to the reefing hook. Running the line towards the mast on the boom allows you to complete the reefing in one place.
The end of the boom in heavy wind is also usually moving around alot and is hard to grab.
The end of the boom in heavy wind is also usually moving around alot and is hard to grab.
Ron Churgin
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
I am a rookie/tadpole sailor so I apologize for the question, but, why reconfigure it 
Coincidentally, on Monday I am going to install a reefing line on S/V Tadpole. I bought about 24' of 1/4" braided nylon. My plan at present is to attach it near the aft end of the boom with a bowline, run it up the port side of the main and through the cringle on the leech, down the starboard side of the main, through the cheek block on the aft starboard side of the boom and then forward to the horn cleat on the boom near the gooseneck. At present, I do not intend to install a reefing hook at/near the gooseneck, although I may do this later. For now, I will have a separate line (about 3'-4') that I will run through the luff cringle, around the boom and then around the mast to secure the main firmly to the boom and mast. This is how I was taught to reef the luff cringle on the mainsail on the Harbor 20s I "race"
at the sailing school.
I will take what line is left over from the above and install them on the main at the two smaller reef cringles in between the larger leech and luff cringles. My thought is to have each line about 3' long and fixed in place with a figure eight knot on each side of the cringle port and starboard. In this way I will not have to search for the reefing lines in the port cockpit locker that I has essentially become the "spaghetti bowl"
As I said, I am a rookie so I would be grateful for your discussion of rigging a reefing line the way you suggested and for any comments you may have about my "reefing plan".
Coincidentally, on Monday I am going to install a reefing line on S/V Tadpole. I bought about 24' of 1/4" braided nylon. My plan at present is to attach it near the aft end of the boom with a bowline, run it up the port side of the main and through the cringle on the leech, down the starboard side of the main, through the cheek block on the aft starboard side of the boom and then forward to the horn cleat on the boom near the gooseneck. At present, I do not intend to install a reefing hook at/near the gooseneck, although I may do this later. For now, I will have a separate line (about 3'-4') that I will run through the luff cringle, around the boom and then around the mast to secure the main firmly to the boom and mast. This is how I was taught to reef the luff cringle on the mainsail on the Harbor 20s I "race"
at the sailing school.I will take what line is left over from the above and install them on the main at the two smaller reef cringles in between the larger leech and luff cringles. My thought is to have each line about 3' long and fixed in place with a figure eight knot on each side of the cringle port and starboard. In this way I will not have to search for the reefing lines in the port cockpit locker that I has essentially become the "spaghetti bowl"
As I said, I am a rookie so I would be grateful for your discussion of rigging a reefing line the way you suggested and for any comments you may have about my "reefing plan".
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Use a helmet!
Not as long as you wear a helmet...
The end of the boom can do quite a bit of dancing around in heavy conditions and getting it corralled in order to deal with the line could be a problem. Best to have the line cleated at the steady end of the boom at the mast, where as others have said, is where you'll need to be to effect the rest of the reef.
The end of the boom can do quite a bit of dancing around in heavy conditions and getting it corralled in order to deal with the line could be a problem. Best to have the line cleated at the steady end of the boom at the mast, where as others have said, is where you'll need to be to effect the rest of the reef.
Randy 25D Seraph #161
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
I installed my rudimentary reefing system today, following the advise and recommendations of several on this board. I bought a length of 1/4" braided nylon and affixed a bowline at the aft end of the boom thru the cringle used for the main outhaul as suggested. From there I went up the port side of the main, thru the leech cringle and down the starboard side of the main to the cheek block on the starboard side of the boom. From there, forward to the horn cleat on the boom near the gooseneck.
I also installed two reef lines thru the two cringles about 3' up the main. I put figure 8 knots on each side of the cringle to keep the line in place. Each line is about 3' in length (hanging down about 1 1/2' on each side of the main)
While at the sailing club mooring, I raised the main all the way then practised lowering the main to the reef point and securing the reefing line and the two main sail reef lines. It worked well. I was surprised at my success.
I have a separate line (about 4') that I use for the leech reef cringle. I go around the boom and back up thru the cringle and then around the mast to make sure the main is tight forward to the mast and tight to the boom. I can do this will standing in the cabin with the coach roof pushed forward.
I had planned on going sailing to reward myself for my efforts. No joy. Just as I finished tiding up, winds kicked up to 18-20 kts. Although I now had a reefing system in place, I wanted to test it on the water in calmer conditions. Somewhere in the back of my small brain is the expression "discretion is the better part of valor". No sailing today
I did spend the remainder of my time installing a temporary boarding ladder. It is a four step aluminum and plastic "toy" from Garelick (sp ) ($30). I had to make a few modifications to get it to hopefully work with the low freeboard on S/V Tadpole. The lower "standoffs" are an issue. I am securing it with a line run around the winch on the coaming and a line around the aft cleat. Hopefully, these lines will keep it in place while this fat, old, out of shape diver trys climbing aboard. To think that just 30-35 years ago I used to scamper into a pontoon (aka Zodiac) in seconds. 
Embarrassing 
I had intended to jump in the water and try it out today. Not too many sailors at the club so not too many people to laugh at the screwups I am sure are in store for me. Once again, no joy. I saw two large lightening bolts and decided, once again, discretion is the better part of valor.
I plan to go sailing tomorrow and test the reefing system and the boarding ladder.
I also installed two reef lines thru the two cringles about 3' up the main. I put figure 8 knots on each side of the cringle to keep the line in place. Each line is about 3' in length (hanging down about 1 1/2' on each side of the main)
While at the sailing club mooring, I raised the main all the way then practised lowering the main to the reef point and securing the reefing line and the two main sail reef lines. It worked well. I was surprised at my success.
I have a separate line (about 4') that I use for the leech reef cringle. I go around the boom and back up thru the cringle and then around the mast to make sure the main is tight forward to the mast and tight to the boom. I can do this will standing in the cabin with the coach roof pushed forward.I had planned on going sailing to reward myself for my efforts. No joy. Just as I finished tiding up, winds kicked up to 18-20 kts. Although I now had a reefing system in place, I wanted to test it on the water in calmer conditions. Somewhere in the back of my small brain is the expression "discretion is the better part of valor". No sailing today
I did spend the remainder of my time installing a temporary boarding ladder. It is a four step aluminum and plastic "toy" from Garelick (sp
) ($30). I had to make a few modifications to get it to hopefully work with the low freeboard on S/V Tadpole. The lower "standoffs" are an issue. I am securing it with a line run around the winch on the coaming and a line around the aft cleat. Hopefully, these lines will keep it in place while this fat, old, out of shape diver trys climbing aboard. To think that just 30-35 years ago I used to scamper into a pontoon (aka Zodiac) in seconds. Embarrassing I had intended to jump in the water and try it out today. Not too many sailors at the club so not too many people to laugh at the screwups I am sure are in store for me. Once again, no joy. I saw two large lightening bolts and decided, once again, discretion is the better part of valor.
I plan to go sailing tomorrow and test the reefing system and the boarding ladder.
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
OK for a TY, but...
I'm assuming we're referring to the tack here...Sea Hunt wrote: I have a separate line (about 4') that I use for the leech reef cringle. I go around the boom and back up thru the cringle and then around the mast to make sure the main is tight forward to the mast and tight to the boom.
This arrangement will work on a smaller boat for daysailing, but beware of this style of tack lashing chafing as the boom works relative to the mast. On a bigger boat or anytime the reef will be tied in for a longer time, reefing hook(s) or a lashing to the gooseneck fitting rather than around the mast would be more appropriate as chafe will be minimized. Failure of the tack lashing in high winds could significantly damage or even be the doom of a mainsail...
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
Bill:
I am missing something in your post. The 4' line I made will go thru the tack cringle twice and twice around the boom and twice around the mast and be tied off with a reef knot. From what I can see, the boom cannot move up or down on the mast. There is a large set screw above and another below the boom gooseneck that (I believe) keeps the boom locked in place.
Where should I experience or be watchful for chafing
Admittedly, I do not plan on doing any lengthy sailing with a reefed main but as I gain more experience I do hope to be able to go out in 15-18 kts winds with a reefed main and a 100%-110% jib for 2-3 hours, if possible.
I can certainly install a reef hook at the gooseneck. Even if I did so, would I not also want to secure the tack cringle to the mast with a line secured around the mast
I am very grateful for your suggestions and recommendations as well as those of the other board members. It is a steep, steep learning curve, and even more so when, as the Admiral used to say I am "sometimes dumber than dirt".
I am missing something in your post. The 4' line I made will go thru the tack cringle twice and twice around the boom and twice around the mast and be tied off with a reef knot. From what I can see, the boom cannot move up or down on the mast. There is a large set screw above and another below the boom gooseneck that (I believe) keeps the boom locked in place.
Where should I experience or be watchful for chafing
Admittedly, I do not plan on doing any lengthy sailing with a reefed main but as I gain more experience I do hope to be able to go out in 15-18 kts winds with a reefed main and a 100%-110% jib for 2-3 hours, if possible.
I can certainly install a reef hook at the gooseneck. Even if I did so, would I not also want to secure the tack cringle to the mast with a line secured around the mast
I am very grateful for your suggestions and recommendations as well as those of the other board members. It is a steep, steep learning curve, and even more so when, as the Admiral used to say I am "sometimes dumber than dirt".
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Warren S
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Jul 27th, '06, 21:22
- Location: s/v Morveren
Cape Dory 270 Hull #5
Washington, NC
reply
Judy nd I completed the installation of the 2nd reefing system (padeye, cheek block, cleat) 3 weeks ago. Prior to that, I had to *try* to get a line around the boom and through the grommet (leach) under the wind conditions that warrant a 2nd reef line. It's just too unmanagable and dangerous out there. Earlier this year I tore the sail along the batten pocket trying to get that line in place. Never again!! Standing at the mast and hauling in is the only way to go.
"Being hove to in a long gale is the most boring way of being terrified I know." -Donald Hamilton
Regarding reef hooks...
Yes, they can be quick and simple... BUT, from my personal experience, they can be damn near impossible to attach a main sail to - unless the sail is extremely soft and flexible! My current main has a solid 6 years of frequent sailing on it and it still is far too inflexible to attach to a reef hook without "installing" another hole in it...
I have also set that line while in some fairly nasty 6 to 8 foot chop just off the beach in the Gulf. We didn't have an anemometer (sp?) onboard but I'm guessing we suddenly got over 20 knots steady with gusts over 30. It was just Toni and me and she hadn't been out in snot like that before. (Yes, we're still together! , she even married me! 
- oh, and we've been caught in just as bad of conditions since!)
She helmed while I reefed and when we sailed into St Andrews Pass, "big-ass" charter boats (with lots of paying customers) were turning around and not going out.
The concern about chaff is very valid, but can also be avoided by paying close attention to exactly where the line crosses (for us) under the goose neck. Robert's route of going a round the mast does keep the tack closer and the foot tighter, but I prefer to have no more line "tied up" than is reasonable. Basically, if that 1/4 dacron pops, an extra loop really isn't going to hold it and it'll just make it more difficult to release and clear. If it wears through from chaff, it wasn't routed cleanly to begin with.
So... Yes! On a pitching and rolling CD28, good sea legs are a most, but so is good old common sense (i.e. always hold on to something while you're up there!). On s/v Tadpole, Robert has already proven to himself that he can set the reef from the cockpit/cabin area so unless his sails are soft, a reef hook may even be more trouble-some to secure. Then you also have to worry about it falling out while you re-tension the main halyard.
Just my miscellaneous ramblings... please take with a "spoon of saltwater" and no offense...
-michael
I have also set that line while in some fairly nasty 6 to 8 foot chop just off the beach in the Gulf. We didn't have an anemometer (sp?) onboard but I'm guessing we suddenly got over 20 knots steady with gusts over 30. It was just Toni and me and she hadn't been out in snot like that before. (Yes, we're still together!
, she even married me! - oh, and we've been caught in just as bad of conditions since!) She helmed while I reefed and when we sailed into St Andrews Pass, "big-ass" charter boats (with lots of paying customers) were turning around and not going out.
The concern about chaff is very valid, but can also be avoided by paying close attention to exactly where the line crosses (for us) under the goose neck. Robert's route of going a round the mast does keep the tack closer and the foot tighter, but I prefer to have no more line "tied up" than is reasonable. Basically, if that 1/4 dacron pops, an extra loop really isn't going to hold it and it'll just make it more difficult to release and clear. If it wears through from chaff, it wasn't routed cleanly to begin with.
So... Yes! On a pitching and rolling CD28, good sea legs are a most, but so is good old common sense (i.e. always hold on to something while you're up there!). On s/v Tadpole, Robert has already proven to himself that he can set the reef from the cockpit/cabin area so unless his sails are soft, a reef hook may even be more trouble-some to secure. Then you also have to worry about it falling out while you re-tension the main halyard.
Just my miscellaneous ramblings... please take with a "spoon of saltwater" and no offense...
-michael
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
chafe...
Where I would be concerned about chafe is anyplace one part of the line could move either across another part of the line or across a metal fitting such as the gooseneck itself. If I'm correctly visualizing the lashing described, when the boom moves from side to side or even surges in and out a bit it will want to rotate the loops around the mast slightly. If the parts of this lashing lie across each other the rubbing could lead to chafing through.Sea Hunt wrote:Bill:
I am missing something in your post. The 4' line I made will go thru the tack cringle twice and twice around the boom and twice around the mast and be tied off with a reef knot. From what I can see, the boom cannot move up or down on the mast. There is a large set screw above and another below the boom gooseneck that (I believe) keeps the boom locked in place.
Where should I experience or be watchful for chafing
I can certainly install a reef hook at the gooseneck. Even if I did so, would I not also want to secure the tack cringle to the mast with a line secured around the mast
I didn't mean to imply that the lashing method was unsuitable for your TY, just that it shouldn't be extrapolated to bigger boats on longer trips. Offshore a reef can remain tied in for a week or more and over time chafe becomes an important factor. It's the same reason that one should "freshen the nip" periodically by adjusting sheets at least once a watch even if the wind hasn't changed...
With a reef hook at the gooseneck you don't need a tack lashing... the hook holds the tack both down and forward. A lashing and reef hook would be a bit of a "belt and suspenders" rig
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
Got out for a few hours today and was able to practice reefing under sailing conditions (not at a mooring). All went very well and I am very happy with the system recommended by folks on this board.
I hove to (on starboard tack) and lowered the main to a predetermined mark on the halyard. Then, standing in the cabin I pulled tight on the reef line and cleated it on the boom cleat. There was more than enough line for me to then run the reef line up through the leech cringle and back down around the boom and cleat it off (again on the boom cleat). It was neat and simple. I then tied off the two short reef lines I installed on the main with figure 8 knots on each side of the cringle. Worked great. No trying to "thread the needle", just two simple reef/square knots and done.
Bill, I now understand your concern. I agree, although I am a true rookie/tadpole. However, for now at least, my sailing under a reefed main will not be for any extended time - if I can avoid it.
As explained above, I did not tie around the mast, only the boom. I talked with the racing coach and he said they tie around the mast only to bring the sail foward as much as possible and thus flatten out the sail as much as possible. It is really not necessary unless you are racing. I am NOT racing in S/V Tadpole.
Good sail too although winds coming right off No Name Harbour. Still looking to get over there UNDER SAIL
I'll report on my boarding ladder efforts in a separate post. They were/are not good
I hove to (on starboard tack) and lowered the main to a predetermined mark on the halyard. Then, standing in the cabin I pulled tight on the reef line and cleated it on the boom cleat. There was more than enough line for me to then run the reef line up through the leech cringle and back down around the boom and cleat it off (again on the boom cleat). It was neat and simple. I then tied off the two short reef lines I installed on the main with figure 8 knots on each side of the cringle. Worked great. No trying to "thread the needle", just two simple reef/square knots and done.
Bill, I now understand your concern. I agree, although I am a true rookie/tadpole. However, for now at least, my sailing under a reefed main will not be for any extended time - if I can avoid it.
As explained above, I did not tie around the mast, only the boom. I talked with the racing coach and he said they tie around the mast only to bring the sail foward as much as possible and thus flatten out the sail as much as possible. It is really not necessary unless you are racing. I am NOT racing in S/V Tadpole.
Good sail too although winds coming right off No Name Harbour. Still looking to get over there UNDER SAIL
I'll report on my boarding ladder efforts in a separate post. They were/are not good
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Hi Robert,
Sounds like your practice at mooring made it all easier. Good for you!
As for the bringing the tack forward, it's not "just for racing" because a flatter sail is also a "de-powered" sail! This can be very important in high winds, which of course, are reefing conditions. This is even more apparent when you have a tired (aka, old and stretched) main. If not flattened, the airfoil and center of lift moves aft which induces more heeling and weather helm. This is the reason KAYLA has blocks on the outhaul for a 4-to-1 purchase. That allows me to tighten up in a stiff breeze even when I'm sailing solo. (On my Typhoons, I only used a single block for the outhaul.) Currently, KAYLA's (only!) reefing block on the boom is not as far aft as I would prefer for the first reef (works great for the second!) so I make sure I secure the tack as far forward as possible.
On a side note, I stumbled across my Cape Dory manual (yeah, still trying to get unpacked and re-organized after the second move in 6 months...) and spotted the page about jiffy reefing. In that, there's a diagram depicting a similar rig to what I use but they are using a cleat on each side of the mast. I have also seen some goose-neck bolts that include reef hooks welded to the top of bolt. This maybe an option one day for KAYLA, but for now I'll just stay with what I have. Besides, it works...
Sounds like your practice at mooring made it all easier. Good for you!
As for the bringing the tack forward, it's not "just for racing" because a flatter sail is also a "de-powered" sail! This can be very important in high winds, which of course, are reefing conditions. This is even more apparent when you have a tired (aka, old and stretched) main. If not flattened, the airfoil and center of lift moves aft which induces more heeling and weather helm. This is the reason KAYLA has blocks on the outhaul for a 4-to-1 purchase. That allows me to tighten up in a stiff breeze even when I'm sailing solo. (On my Typhoons, I only used a single block for the outhaul.) Currently, KAYLA's (only!) reefing block on the boom is not as far aft as I would prefer for the first reef (works great for the second!) so I make sure I secure the tack as far forward as possible.
On a side note, I stumbled across my Cape Dory manual (yeah, still trying to get unpacked and re-organized after the second move in 6 months...) and spotted the page about jiffy reefing. In that, there's a diagram depicting a similar rig to what I use but they are using a cleat on each side of the mast. I have also seen some goose-neck bolts that include reef hooks welded to the top of bolt. This maybe an option one day for KAYLA, but for now I'll just stay with what I have. Besides, it works...
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE