Heaving-to in a Cape Dory 30' in extreme conditions?

[Kyheinze]

We are going offshore in our Cape Dory 30'. We are planning on following Lin and Larry Pardey's suggestions in Storm Tactics to cope with rough conditions. They suggest heaving-to and adding a sea anchor when conditions become extreme.

They say that different boats heave-to differently in high wind. Do any of you have experience with this? For example, with the boat heave-to in 45 knots with a triple-reefed main? Or does one need a long-footed trysail with a center of effort further aft?

I'd be very grateful to hear your experiences, since we haven't been able to test this yet.

Ky Heinze

[Bill Goldsmith]

I hove to in about 30 knots and steep chop with my prior boat, a CD27. I've never had the opportunity to do so in higher winds. The CDs heave to very well under jib alone if you want to make very little forward way. If you want to move a little faster, or to control your attitude to the waves, the main is useful, too. Leave up however much main feels manageable under the conditions. I am not sure how the trysail works with heaving to, but I have to believe it can be used in a similar fashion.

[tartansailor]

Ky,
If you wish to endure a 45 knot blow, may I respectfully
refer you to "Heavy Weather Sailing" by K Adlard Coles.

You may wish to consider a storm trisail, followed by streaming
warps under bare pole when wind and current conflict.

Dick

[Mathias]

I have hove-to in my CD25 in about 20 mph, and I have hove-to in my Hans Christian 33, and then on a third boat: a BCC 28 (which is what the Pardey's sailed) in about 35 knots of wind in 12-15-foot seas in the Gulf Stream.

As you said, all three heave to differently. My CD will heave to with jib alone (and that is nice because it allows me to reef my main while I am hove to.) My HC33 won't heave to with any foresail up. She just falls off. She wants mainsail alone.

The BCC was similar. We were dead tired and really needed sleep. The storm was the strongest we had experienced. We tried heaving to several times and failed. It was a tricky experience, because you have to tack into the wind and try to time it so that you make a clean tack in a trough and don't end up broadsides to the waves. (The worst no-no.)

We tried less and less main. This boat was rigged with in-mast rollerfurling. But no matter how little main we put up, the boat would fall off. We'd fall off, gather headway and tack again, and try to hold her.

We gave up and thought we would resort to half-hour watches. But soon realized we just couldn't stay awake. I finally remembered something I saw in the Pardey's book or video:

Sometimes you have to take wind and wave direction into account. If you can't heave to on a starboard tack, try the port tack. A picture would be worth a thousand words here on why that is, so I won't explain.

Anyway, we tried it and ... presto! It worked. Well, okay, so we had to tweak the mainsail to the right reef point, but we found that point.

The point to all this is: You will have to get to know your boat. She will heave to under different sail plans depending on how strong the wind is blowing.

What you are doing is trying to balance the center of effort in such a way that you remain 50 to 60 degrees to the wind. The greater the wind, the less sail that will take.

Also... at first we were pretty uncertain we found the sweet spot. (Okay, again, not so "presto.") We were holding and not crabbing forward (by too much) but we were pretty broad to the waves. It felt like much more than 50 degrees. More like 60 or so. So we watched the boat for about 45 minutes before we felt comfortable enough to go down below and sleep.

The sleep was not the best. It was one of those where you don't think you are sleeping, (fitful dreams) but suddenly it was light out and eight hours had passed.

We woke to the boom slamming around because the wind had eased.

Also another note: The next morning, we noticed the mainsheet had worked its way loose of the cam cleat during the night. So if you main "fixes" that way, you better secure it back on to itself if you are going down below to sleep while she is hove to. I shudder to think what would have happened if the main loosened too much and we would have been lying ahull in those waves.

Who among us practices heaving to and MOB (including lowering the retrieval system) enough? But it sure is nice to know what you are doing when you are dead tired and the sea is not friendly anymore.

fair winds,
-Mathias

[Carl Thunberg]

If you don't have a copy of the book Dick mentioned you may be able to find one through a used book store, or through Amazon.com, but you'll want to get your hands on a copy. Read it in small bites because it's pretty technical, especially in its treatment of meteorology. I sincerely hope I never need to deploy the techniques he discusses, but at least I have the knowledge of what has worked for others. Perhaps his greatest advice is not to be a slave to a schedule. The greatest storm tactic may be to delay your passage. Of course, that's not very helpful if you're in a trans-Atlantic crossing when the storm hits, but you get the idea.

P.S. - I just checked Amazon.com and they list several used copies for reasonable prices. If you find one, make sure all the pages are there. Mine is missing 40 pages through a printing error. I sure would like to know what's in those missing pages.

Edit: I have the 1972 re-print and it's missing pages 212 to 240.

[mahalocd36]

If you find one, make sure all the pages are there. Mine is missing 40 pages through a printing error. I sure would like to know what's in those missing pages.

Oh, we have a copy, the missing pages includes the following sections with definitive answers:

-Wheel or Tiller, which better in a storm?
-Locking or freewheeling your prop as a storm tactic
-Roller furling pros and cons
-How my staysail saved my life in a storm/why the staysail
caused our boat to sink
-Automatic bilge pumps - necessary or false confidence?

[Mathias]

oh heavens!! As if the lock-or-not-lock the prop weren't enough of a hot topic already on this site, now we can add the element of its merits in a storm!

A rather stormy topic, me thinks.

I love the chapter heading on the stay sail.

-Mathias

[seadog6532]

We put up a post a while ago about heaving to with a ketch rig, but did not get much feedback. About a week ago we went out for a night sail on Mobile Bay and the conditions were right to give it a try. Winds about 25kts and a little gusty with 3-4 feet seas running. Under Jib and Jigger she hove to and rode like a Caddy with only a little lee way. I can't wait to try it with the main up. We have no idea how she will do when it's blowing 40+ but I bet she will do just fine.
Mark and Anna of Arianna CD30K #112

[chase]

That's good info Mark. Is that typical for heaving to in a ketch, with back winded jib and mizzen? When you say add the main, is that in lieu of mizzen?

Ky,

One of the issues with the CD30 is that in higher winds we're often running the club footed staysail - is that how you're rigged? That makes it tough to do without some kind of preventer. I think it is fairly straightforward with yankee and reefed main but not sure I'd want to carry that in a blow. Matter of fact, I do know that the boat is over-canvassed in 30 kts with 1 reef and yankee, but perhaps 2 reefs would work well.

Where are you going offshore? I have been sailing my 30 offshore recently, about 700 miles since Nov. I am very happy with the boat but have not been in any extreme conditions. What do you have for downwind sailing in light airs?

Have Fun-

Chase

[seadog6532]

I have a 135 on a furler. The club boom was removed before I got the boat. We have plans to take off to Mexico in the next year or so but still don't have firm plans for when.
As far as using the Jib and Mizzen, it's what I had up at the time. Most of the time when it's blowing hard we just drop the main and the boat sails great. We need to see how the boat will heave-to with the Main, Jib, and Mizzen up and play with a few combinations of sail just to see what happens.

[henry hey]

FWIW

I have been hove to in my cd25 in a pretty good blow and also in a J-24 with a genoa -- both very different boats.

They take a little tweaking but not much. In both cases I found that it was headsail that did almost all of the action.

The main was in a luff like state.

-h

[tartansailor]

If you don't have a copy of the book Dick mentioned you may be able to find one through a used book store, or through Amazon.com, but you'll want to get your hands on a copy. Read it in small bites because it's pretty technical, especially in its treatment of meteorology. I sincerely hope I never need to deploy the techniques he discusses, but at least I have the knowledge of what has worked for others. Perhaps his greatest advice is not to be a slave to a schedule. The greatest storm tactic may be to delay your passage. Of course, that's not very helpful if you're in a trans-Atlantic crossing when the storm hits, but you get the idea.

P.S. - I just checked Amazon.com and they list several used copies for reasonable prices. If you find one, make sure all the pages are there. Mine is missing 40 pages through a printing error. I sure would like to know what's in those missing pages.

Edit: I have the 1972 re-print and it's missing pages 212 to 240.

Carl,
Let me copy the 1st pp of ch 20, p 213 "Survival Storms"

K.A. Coles wrote;
"The difference between a gale and what has become known as a survival storm is that in the former, with winds of Force 8, or perhaps 9; say 30 to 45 knots mean velocity; the skipper and crew retain control and can take the measures which they think best, whereas in a survival gale of Force 10 or over, perhaps gusting at hurricane strength, wind and sea become the masters. For skipper and crew it is then a battle to keep the yacht afloat. There is no navigation, except rough DR., because the course is dictated by the need to take the breaking crests of the seas at the best angle.
In this chapter I shall deal broadly with a few further experiences of yachts involved in survival storms and hurricanes and the lessons to be drawn from them"

As an aside, my little CD-25 survived a Force 9, and the lesson learned was that NEVER, NEVER again. If the forecast calls for anything over 25, I'm outta there. No kidding this is serious.

Dick

[Sea Hunt]

The last several times I have been out on S/V Tadpole, I have practiced heaving to. Given the mild sailing conditions on Biscayne Bay, I hope to only heave to for lunch, to relax, etc. and not for bad weather.

Tadpole has an interesting characteristic that I have not found on other sailboats I have sailed - admittedly not that many.

To hove to, I simply tack onto a starboard tack from close hauled, back wind the jib in place and completely release the main. All pretty standard from what I have read. However, the tiller does not have to be lashed to leeward (as on other sailboats I have been on). Tadpole is just fine with the tiller amidships. Tadpole makes the typical slight "S" curve motion and very little forward momentum.

If I intentionally hold the tiller to leeward, Tadpole wants to come up into the wind, despite the force of the backwinded jib. I am not sure why but I assume it has something to do with her full keel. It may also be the size of the jib (100-110). Perhaps with a 130-140 Genoa, the tiller may need to be lashed to leeward.

Anyways, it is relatively easy for me to do. Should I get caught out in a bad sea state, I plan to heave to and let Tadpole handle it. She has been very good to me so far. Of course, I treat her like the special lady she is and the prettiest girl in the sailing club fleet.

[The Patriot]

... Do any of you have experience with this? For example, with the boat heave-to in 45 knots with a triple-reefed main? Or does one need a long-footed trysail with a center of effort further aft?

I'd be very grateful to hear your experiences, since we haven't been able to test this yet.

Ky Heinze

Not to toot my own horn (no, really), but we wrote about an experience like this in 1989 on a cruise from NJ to Nova Scotia. If I remember correctly there are quite a few details in the story on my web site (which has not been updated since the Reagan administration).

[Kyheinze]

Hi CD friends,
I am very grateful for all of your comments. They were very helpful. This is the first time I have posted a question, and I thought that I would receive an email if anyone responded. But I must have missed the email, so I was pleasantly surprised when I checked the discussion today.

Bill,
Thanks very much for your message. I am intrigued by the idea of heaving-to with jib alone. Do you think that the bow would begin falling off as the wind increased to 40 mph, etc.?

Dick,
Thanks for your suggestion. I’ll definitely get a copy of “Heavy Weather Sailing”. I am reminded by these posts that dealing with heavy weather is complex and I’ll be interested in what Coles has to say.

Mathias,
I found your experiences particularly instructive (and engaging). I’ll try to get some practice before the big trip and keep in mind some of the complexities you mentioned. I am again intrigued by the idea of heaving-to under jib alone with a CD. I don’t understand how it works. It would seem to put the center of effort far forward and cause the bow to fall away from the wind. I’d be interested in your or Bill’s insights into this.

Carl,
Thanks for the heads-up: I’d hate to miss the sections Melissa mentioned.

Mathias,
Speaking of staysails, do you advocate taking off the club boom for cruising: I’ve heard that many do so, but I’d hate to miss it a few thousand miles from home.

Chase,
Yes, we do have the club-footed staysail. I had assumed that one could still back it when heaving-to by securing the slide to windward on the track, but perhaps that is insufficient. As for reefs, we’ve put a reef in the staysail and a third reef in the main. Hopefully, that will give us enough heavy-weather options. For downwind sailing in light air, we have a spinnaker and a nylon drifter. The drifter has a luff cable, so we can haul it up without having to change out the roller headsail. We’ve had some experience with the drifter and it worked well. I’m intrigued by the possibility of running wing-on-wing with the genoa on one side and the drifter on the other, but I haven’t tried it yet.

We’d like to cross the Atlantic and spend some time in the Med.

Henry,
I’d also be interested in your comments on heaving-to with the headsail. How would the action change as the wind increased?

Kerry,
Thanks for the link! I read your account. This is more what I expected, after reading the Pardey’s Storm Tactics (heaving-to under double-reefed main). Do you have some insight into the idea of heaving-to in CD with jib alone, as mentioned above?