Considering a CD 28

[Tom Javor]

Hi, I'm a new member of the board and spent a bit of time this afternoon looking at a CD 28 that I'm interested in. Have owned a Herreshoff S boat for the last 14 years and my sailing interests have changed from daysailing to more cruising. The 28s seem to present a great combination of classic looks, stability, amenities and value.

Wondering if any current 28 owners can give me some guidance regarding specific areas that I should look at closely before I decide to bring in a surveyor - really don't care to go to that expense if there is a blatant issue I have overlooked.

Having been an S boater for years, and growing up around and with wooden boats - this would be my first fiberglas "real" boat.

Thanks for your input .

[Tom Javor]

Thanks for the info - from what I could see yesterday all of the hardware mountings appeared dry and sound. There is one small area of damage on the cabintop - looks as if the boom was dropped. Other than that - and a bottom that needs stripping (yuck - nasty job on a wood or glass hull) - she looks pretty clean but difficult to tell with shrinkwrap in place. Yesterday was first visit and I'm trying to decide if I'm interested enough to have the wrap taken off.

As to blistering - the boat has been hauled since last September - would blisters still be evident or would they recede as the bottom dries out?

Tom

[mgphl52]

First and foremost: Find a GOOD surveyor, one with Cape Dory experience, if possible.
It will cost you some $$$ but it is the best purchase you can make for a new, used boat.

-michael

[Russell]

As to blistering - the boat has been hauled since last September - would blisters still be evident or would they recede as the bottom dries out?

Tom

That long out of the water then any but insanely large blisters would not be evident. Even a couple days out of the water can make small blisters hard to see sometimes.

That said, I personally do not think blisters are ever a reason not to buy a boat, far more is made about them then should be. Unless you are finding serious delamination in the hull you can ignore blisters for years (usually they already have been ignored for years with no ill effects).

Deck moisture though is a far far bigger concern and one that will still rear its ugly head if the boat has been out of the water for years. If you want to do some presurvey/offer work, buy a plastic mallet and sound the deck (with the owners permission). Soggy decks, engines and rigging are the biggest concerns that you wont always find immediately visible.

[tmsc]

IMHO, for what little its worth, everyone so far has given you really good advice. I have to agree with Russell about blisters and deck condition. Blistering is often a headache, but deck problems can be a very expensive nightmare.

Not trying to be cute or a smart A, but if the owner will not let you use a hammer, get the heaviest friend you have, explain to him or her what you are searching for, and have that person go walk the decks with you. You might be surprised at how much you can discover that way.

Also, if you use a moisture meter yourself, unless you are familiar with them, just remember that metal can cause high readings. Something to think about when looking at something with metal backing plates. Meters are not the absolute end all be all just an indicator.

[Tom Javor]

Thanks for the great advice so far. One of my reasons for beng interested in CD's over several other builders is the presence of an active owners' association a dn community.

My intnetion is to hire a surveyor prior to the final purchase - but only as the final step. I would like to go into the suvey having eliminated the really obvious issues - hate to spend that sort of $$ and up passing on the boat if I could have done the same thing with a flashlight and a mallet.

[Joe Myerson]

Like everybody else here, I'd advise hiring a surveyor. Some will do a minimal survey and let you know right away if they don't think it's worth paying them for a full, in-depth survey.

Mine did that. The preliminary survey on a boat I didn't buy cost me $150. I considered it money well spent.

Good luck.

--Joe

[Patrick Harrison]

Survey,survey,survey...........Ask questions in the area, talk to the boat yard and see who they recommend, call another boat yard an ask them questions about surveyors. Mine was at a cost of just under $400 and worth every nickel. The boat past with flying colors, I had five surveyors to pick from and ask them all questions about their experience with Cape Dorys. The better he/she is the better you will be.

[Ron Churgin]

Tom,

Not to distract you from your new endeavor but I would love to hear some stories about your Herreshoff S class. Your post made me curious so I looked up some information on the Western Long Island Sound association. I was bowled over by the pictures of these boats and the article about their design.

I would love to hear any stories about sailing or racing them and how much work they take to maintain. How did you get involved with them?

[Tom Javor]

Herreshoff S Class HMC Hull #1125, launched in June of 1929

Originally named Barracuda, she was renamed Hurricane the morning after the great storm of 1938. According to legend - though dismasted - she was one of two boats to surivive on their moorings in Padanaram Harbour. She was in the Padanaram area from 1929 until the late 70's when she was sold to a staff member at Mystic. She homeported there for several years before he moved her to Maine. At some point in the mid to late 80's she was sold to a fellow here in RI. I purchased her in 1994 and began a close to 2 year professional rebuild. New floortimbers, mostly new frames, new quarter knees, deck, sheerstrakes and some planking.

The S class is an incredibly fast and responsive design- it is still highly competitive in comparison to many modern designs. 27'6" LOA , 20' LWL, carries about 450 sq ft of canvas - boom is about 16 ft long which requires running backstays. Jib is a glorified napkin, clubfooted. The profile of an S boat is unmistakeable - low to the water with a towering rig the has a very distinctive curve above the spreaders. It was Herreshoff's first design with a Marconi rig and he compensated for that by building a 30 inch offset in the mast above the spreaders. Hurricane sails under the last original Company S boat spar - ot was salaged from her sister in September of 1938.

Sailing an S boat is unlike anything else I have sailed - fast and quick to respond yet very comfortable. Huge cockpit area with comfortable bench seating. I will never own another boat that handles as well but the problem I have is the class is a racing/daysailing design - there are no accomodations, no galley and no head and I'm now more interested in cruising than around the buoys racing. In many ways the change breaks my heart but it's for the best at this point.

There is still an active racing class on Narragansett Bay

[Troy Scott]

Tom Javor,

In a recent discussion, we talked about the backing plates for shroud and stay attachment points. Some of the Cape Dorys had mild steel embedded in the hull-to deck joint. Others have aluminum angle below the hull-to-deck joint. The aluminum is less problematic. If you see steel, it might be fine if the bedding has always been good. However these plates can be problematic if a slow leak has allowed moisture to intrude. You can possibly use a magnet if you're unsure what's in there. If you see a substantial amount of rust running down the inside of the hull here, plan on a difficult repair, or run away.

I'm doing a major refit on a CD36 now. I've poked and prodded more than most folks, and I found a few things the surveyor didn't find. First, the advice to buy the $300 moisture meter is right-on. You can always sell it on ebay when you're through with it. You can use it to do non-destructive testing on the CD28 you're looking at, or any other boat you decide to check out. You can use it as your boat ages with you, to make sure you're not getting new moisture anywhere. A "moisture meter diary" will help here. These tools are great, but must be used with some knowledge. As has been mentioned, metal in the structure will look like moisture. Check for hidden backing plates, etc. when you think you have a wet area. Even a little moisture in a balsa core should be addressed, but it's not a reason to forego the purchase. On the other hand, a LOT of moisture in the deck means a huge and expensive repair job. If you hear "squishing" as you walk, run away. If the deck feels "soft" or "punchy', run away. However, if the deck seems solid and the meter shows "moist" (not "wet") in a few areas of a square foot or less, this isn't difficult to fix, but may mean a repaint job as well. Look around for owner-installed or "after market" equipment (dodger, for example). Often this stuff doesn't get bedded properly. Folks will run a self-tapping screw through the glass into the balsa without adding any bedding compound. This leads to wet core. Also, around the bases of deck hardware subjected to sudden jerks, etc, like the mainsheet traveler, sometimes leak. Most of the time Cape Dory replaced the balsa with plywood in areas where hardware would be mounted, but still only the bedding caulk separates the water from the core. Check around the portlights inside and out for signs of leaking. I'm not talking about the rubber seal next to the glass, which is easily replaced. I'm talking about the bedding. if there is plywood facing on the cabin sides around the portlights inside, it should be free of moisture damage. Otherwise plan to replace the wood along with rebedding the ports.

Most Cape Dorys have some gelcoat cracking/crazing. It usually doesn't involve the glass, and is merely cosmetic. The moisture meter should reveal if there is deep damage. This can be fixed, but it means a substantial amount of work, followed by a repaint.

Check the plumbing, especially that associated with the head. Make sure it's legal, functional and not stinky. Otherwise plan to fix it later. Check to see if the boat has original Spartan seacocks and check if they will open/close. If they are Spartan and stuck, they're easy to fix.

Definitely check the rig integrity.

Most Cape Dorys have wiring like many builders were using at the time, not tinned and not heat-shrunk at the connections. Sometimes it's good-to-go, sometimes it has corroded to the point of being unusable. Check to see that all cabin lights, running lights, anchor lights, etc. work.

Run the engine. Take someone with you who knows about these things. Look at the exhaust during startup, while running at idle, while running under load, and in the short interval when you "gun-it". Also listen to it. To an experienced mechanic, this is very revealing. LOOK at the engine. See if the space is clean, or if there is an oily mess on and under it. Look for oil in the bilge. There shouldn't be any.

Are the batteries old or new? Is there corrosion on the terminals?

Does the water heater work? Or is it a disconnected rusting hulk? Hot water should be available after running the engine a short time.

Look for mold and mildew on the ceiling and under cushions, etc.. This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, but it will tell you if you need to improve ventilation after the purchase.

I don't know you, so I don't know how substantial an investment this would be for you. I will say that, even if the boat is excellent and needs very little, on a really old boat bought at a good price, you should expect to spend a substantial amount after you buy her. Look over the potential purchase, make a list of improvements you'd like to see, and look through a "Defender" catalog with these in mind. WM is a great place to window-shop, and they will sometimes "price-match", but I find much better prices on major items at Defender.

I could go on about this all day, but I have to meet friends for lunch. Feel free to email me if you think I can help. tscott1217@bellsouth.net

[Dixon Hemphill]

Got to get into this discussion! A fellow sailor and I just returned from a three week 900 mile cruise from our home port in Annapolis to my home-state waters in Westerly, RI in my 1977 Cape Dory 28. We motored most of the way due to unfavorable winds but the boat performed like a champ and I have nothing but praise for this sturdy Alberg design sailboat.

Sure, get a survey and get the engine checked out as the other suggested, but as for soft spots on the deck and a few leaks here and there (as my boat had )I strongly suggest you buy that boat and address repairs later on.

If you delay your decision much longer someone else may come along and beat you to the purchase.

If you want more details on our trip or the condition of my boat don't hesitate to contact me at dixonh1925@verizon.net