Our 1977 CD27, like many of that vintage I guess, came with a LECTRASAN sewage treatment system hooked up to the standard marine head. (We acquired the boat this fall.)
This year we want to make a fully compliant setup and install a regular holding tank (with deck fitting, Y valve and Whale Gusher or equiv. pump)...
Have some of you done this already?
There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Many thanks,
Yves
1977 CD27 "Alphee"
w1ux@tinyradio.com
Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Bob Loewenstein
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
Peggy Hall of Peale Products sells various holding tanks. I was thinking of replacing ours with a larger one and reviewed her catalog to see what she had. Some, I think, would fit, but I decided to keep the original.
The deck fitting is at the aft section of the head compartment, so the line from the head go to the tank (only a few feet) under the settee, and the pumpout hose returns to the head compartment and bends up to the deck fitting.
Hope this helps.
Bob
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
A few years ago in our 27, I put in a new head and new hoses, as well as (shudder) removing the holding tank and cleaning it out. The holding tank is a 15 gallon tank, as I remember, located under the port settee.There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Peggy Hall of Peale Products sells various holding tanks. I was thinking of replacing ours with a larger one and reviewed her catalog to see what she had. Some, I think, would fit, but I decided to keep the original.
The deck fitting is at the aft section of the head compartment, so the line from the head go to the tank (only a few feet) under the settee, and the pumpout hose returns to the head compartment and bends up to the deck fitting.
Hope this helps.
Bob
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
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Jeff Schmoyer
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
Yves,
HEY! I'm working on this unpleasant problem as well.
By the end of this past summer, the stench from my 78 CD 27's waste system was so bad- even when pumping out and pumping water through- that I ripped out all of the hoses and that tiny little holding tank under the port v-berth and threw them into a dumpster.
What a foul job that was!
Now I am left with only the Raritan marine head, a through-hull under the port settee in the main cabin, and a pump out fitting up by the bow.
I'm not sure what I'll end up doing. I came up with three alternatives:
1 - put new holding tank under port v-berth.
2 - put the holding tank under the middle of the v-berth where the water tank is now. Advantage: a much bigger holding tank and a short distance for the "vent" tube that Peggy Peal says is so important to keep the oxygen flowing in the tank. Disadvantage is cost (need new water tank) and an uphill run from the toilet.
3 - put new holding tank under port main settee. Advantage: downhill run from the toilet, weight not in end of boat, slightly bigger tank. Disadvantage is that it may be hard to run the vent tube, and also that I'd probably have to elliminate or move the head discharge seacock to fit the tank in.
If I knew of a way to safely close up that thru-hull hole w/ a very strong fiberglass/epoxy repair, I think I'd go for 3.
Any other ideas out there?
Jeff
jeff.schmoyer@iff.com
Yves,
HEY! I'm working on this unpleasant problem as well.
By the end of this past summer, the stench from my 78 CD 27's waste system was so bad- even when pumping out and pumping water through- that I ripped out all of the hoses and that tiny little holding tank under the port v-berth and threw them into a dumpster.
What a foul job that was!
Now I am left with only the Raritan marine head, a through-hull under the port settee in the main cabin, and a pump out fitting up by the bow.
I'm not sure what I'll end up doing. I came up with three alternatives:
1 - put new holding tank under port v-berth.
2 - put the holding tank under the middle of the v-berth where the water tank is now. Advantage: a much bigger holding tank and a short distance for the "vent" tube that Peggy Peal says is so important to keep the oxygen flowing in the tank. Disadvantage is cost (need new water tank) and an uphill run from the toilet.
3 - put new holding tank under port main settee. Advantage: downhill run from the toilet, weight not in end of boat, slightly bigger tank. Disadvantage is that it may be hard to run the vent tube, and also that I'd probably have to elliminate or move the head discharge seacock to fit the tank in.
If I knew of a way to safely close up that thru-hull hole w/ a very strong fiberglass/epoxy repair, I think I'd go for 3.
Any other ideas out there?
Jeff
jeff.schmoyer@iff.com
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Bill Goldsmith
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
More on Holding tanks:
I checked the Defender site (Don't have their catalog handy) and didn't see the tank there. However it is prominently displayed on the following mfg site as tank "c".
http://www.sealandtechnology.com/sanx.html:
Guess it's only 9 gal after all, but it fit well after the described modifications.
goldy@bestweb.net
More on Holding tanks:
I checked the Defender site (Don't have their catalog handy) and didn't see the tank there. However it is prominently displayed on the following mfg site as tank "c".
http://www.sealandtechnology.com/sanx.html:
Guess it's only 9 gal after all, but it fit well after the described modifications.
Our 1977 CD27, like many of that vintage I guess, came with a LECTRASAN sewage treatment system hooked up to the standard marine head. (We acquired the boat this fall.)
This year we want to make a fully compliant setup and install a regular holding tank (with deck fitting, Y valve and Whale Gusher or equiv. pump)...
Have some of you done this already?
There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Many thanks,
Yves
1977 CD27 "Alphee"
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
Yves:
Someone replaced the hoses on my 1980 CD27 Head with the wrong type and the stench was, well, you know..... Last year I embarked on replacing the hoses and learned to my dismay that the original holding tank under the port v-berth had a built-in macerator pump that was rusted up and long abandoned. So much for just cleaning and re-using the old tank. I set about replacing the tank and I was about to install a rectangular 9 gallon tank when I looked at the Defender Industries catalog. They have a Sealand polyethylene tank (12 or 15 gal--I forget) that is alost a direct replacement (sizewize). It is rectangular at the top and has a triangular bottom that fits neatly under the v-berth and conforms to the hull profile. The only modification I needed to do was remove a small portion of the fiberglass liner because the outlets were on the hull side. After wrestling with the hoses for a while, the syatem works great.
My system routes all waste to the tank first. there is a y-valve between the tank and the whale pump to direct the flow to either the deck fitting or the pumpout. The pump is attached behind the head in that little shelf area. I never use the y-valve and pump, however, as it stays permanently on the deck fitting side. Maybe when I go out to sea I'll use the overboard pumpout!!
Check out that Sealand tank before you decide to install a tank under the settees--It will save you that space!!
Bill Goldsmith
CD27
Second Chance
goldy@bestweb.net
Yves:
Someone replaced the hoses on my 1980 CD27 Head with the wrong type and the stench was, well, you know..... Last year I embarked on replacing the hoses and learned to my dismay that the original holding tank under the port v-berth had a built-in macerator pump that was rusted up and long abandoned. So much for just cleaning and re-using the old tank. I set about replacing the tank and I was about to install a rectangular 9 gallon tank when I looked at the Defender Industries catalog. They have a Sealand polyethylene tank (12 or 15 gal--I forget) that is alost a direct replacement (sizewize). It is rectangular at the top and has a triangular bottom that fits neatly under the v-berth and conforms to the hull profile. The only modification I needed to do was remove a small portion of the fiberglass liner because the outlets were on the hull side. After wrestling with the hoses for a while, the syatem works great.
My system routes all waste to the tank first. there is a y-valve between the tank and the whale pump to direct the flow to either the deck fitting or the pumpout. The pump is attached behind the head in that little shelf area. I never use the y-valve and pump, however, as it stays permanently on the deck fitting side. Maybe when I go out to sea I'll use the overboard pumpout!!
Check out that Sealand tank before you decide to install a tank under the settees--It will save you that space!!
Bill Goldsmith
CD27
Second Chance
Our 1977 CD27, like many of that vintage I guess, came with a LECTRASAN sewage treatment system hooked up to the standard marine head. (We acquired the boat this fall.)
This year we want to make a fully compliant setup and install a regular holding tank (with deck fitting, Y valve and Whale Gusher or equiv. pump)...
Have some of you done this already?
There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Many thanks,
Yves
1977 CD27 "Alphee"
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
Jeff:
I went with #1.
I did the same thing you did: ripping out the old system in disgust--I'm sure the dumpster company wasn't very pleased that week!! See my response to Yves about the Sealand holding tank I bought from Defender Industries. It fit really well as a replacement. I'd keep the water tank. I've thought about running a second vent to the holding tank to comply with the oxygen suggestion, as my vent is way up in the anchor rode locker. Might put another vent near the tank, just under the rub rail. So far with the new tank and hoses, it's been sweet-smelling even with the long vent run.
Bill
Goldy@bestweb.net
Jeff:
I went with #1.
I did the same thing you did: ripping out the old system in disgust--I'm sure the dumpster company wasn't very pleased that week!! See my response to Yves about the Sealand holding tank I bought from Defender Industries. It fit really well as a replacement. I'd keep the water tank. I've thought about running a second vent to the holding tank to comply with the oxygen suggestion, as my vent is way up in the anchor rode locker. Might put another vent near the tank, just under the rub rail. So far with the new tank and hoses, it's been sweet-smelling even with the long vent run.
Bill
HEY! I'm working on this unpleasant problem as well.
By the end of this past summer, the stench from my 78 CD 27's waste system was so bad- even when pumping out and pumping water through- that I ripped out all of the hoses and that tiny little holding tank under the port v-berth and threw them into a dumpster.
What a foul job that was!
Now I am left with only the Raritan marine head, a through-hull under the port settee in the main cabin, and a pump out fitting up by the bow.
I'm not sure what I'll end up doing. I came up with three alternatives:
1 - put new holding tank under port v-berth.
2 - put the holding tank under the middle of the v-berth where the water tank is now. Advantage: a much bigger holding tank and a short distance for the "vent" tube that Peggy Peal says is so important to keep the oxygen flowing in the tank. Disadvantage is cost (need new water tank) and an uphill run from the toilet.
3 - put new holding tank under port main settee. Advantage: downhill run from the toilet, weight not in end of boat, slightly bigger tank. Disadvantage is that it may be hard to run the vent tube, and also that I'd probably have to elliminate or move the head discharge seacock to fit the tank in.
If I knew of a way to safely close up that thru-hull hole w/ a very strong fiberglass/epoxy repair, I think I'd go for 3.
Any other ideas out there?
Jeff
Goldy@bestweb.net
-
Edd
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
Erogers711@AOL.com
Conversely, I have been considering installing a LectraSan in addition to the holding tank. Is there a problem (FUMES) with your LectraSan?
Our 1977 CD27, like many of that vintage I guess, came with a LECTRASAN sewage treatment system hooked up to the standard marine head. (We acquired the boat this fall.)
This year we want to make a fully compliant setup and install a regular holding tank (with deck fitting, Y valve and Whale Gusher or equiv. pump)...
Have some of you done this already?
There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Many thanks,
Yves
1977 CD27 "Alphee"
Erogers711@AOL.com
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chuck yahrling
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
My CD-27 came with the setup you are thinking about. Not sure of the capacity but the tank is in the middle space under the port settee. There is a whale gusher mounted above the head. The system works such that the head always fills the holding tank first. The gusher runs in between the holding tank and a ball valve under the port v-berth. You open the kick-panel hatch to actuate the ball valve. Inside the 3-mile limit, you leave the ball valve shut and use the normal pumpout port on-deck.
At Dave Perry's suggestion, I am going to install a Nauta flexible bag, somewhere under the head base, and remove the tank under the port settee, replacing it with another bag for more fresh water. I don't plan on using vents as the bags naturally collapse when evacuating them.
The rest of the rig will stay the same, except I will put a y-valve into the pickup line for the gusher so I can use it as a backup manual bilge pump. You might want to consider that, as the big job will be running the plumbing and installing the gusher behind the head. It may involve taking some cabintry apart, or removing the head. Mine looks like a post-factory job so there must be a way to get behind and under the head-area shelf.
yahrling@cybertours.com
Yves;
Our 1977 CD27, like many of that vintage I guess, came with a LECTRASAN sewage treatment system hooked up to the standard marine head. (We acquired the boat this fall.)
This year we want to make a fully compliant setup and install a regular holding tank (with deck fitting, Y valve and Whale Gusher or equiv. pump)...
Have some of you done this already?
My CD-27 came with the setup you are thinking about. Not sure of the capacity but the tank is in the middle space under the port settee. There is a whale gusher mounted above the head. The system works such that the head always fills the holding tank first. The gusher runs in between the holding tank and a ball valve under the port v-berth. You open the kick-panel hatch to actuate the ball valve. Inside the 3-mile limit, you leave the ball valve shut and use the normal pumpout port on-deck.
At Dave Perry's suggestion, I am going to install a Nauta flexible bag, somewhere under the head base, and remove the tank under the port settee, replacing it with another bag for more fresh water. I don't plan on using vents as the bags naturally collapse when evacuating them.
The rest of the rig will stay the same, except I will put a y-valve into the pickup line for the gusher so I can use it as a backup manual bilge pump. You might want to consider that, as the big job will be running the plumbing and installing the gusher behind the head. It may involve taking some cabintry apart, or removing the head. Mine looks like a post-factory job so there must be a way to get behind and under the head-area shelf.
There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Many thanks,
Yves
1977 CD27 "Alphee"
yahrling@cybertours.com
-
Jeff Schmoyer
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
Bill,
Hey, that's great intelligence! I don't have the defender catalog; wasn't aware of this tank. Glad to hear that you've been stench-free. I think a lot of my boat's problem was the improper hoses (non-smooth interior).
Jeff
Jeff.Schmoyer@iff.com
Bill,
Hey, that's great intelligence! I don't have the defender catalog; wasn't aware of this tank. Glad to hear that you've been stench-free. I think a lot of my boat's problem was the improper hoses (non-smooth interior).
Jeff
Jeff.Schmoyer@iff.com
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Bob Miller
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
</LI>
millerfam5050@worldnet.att.net
I took out everything! Right now, all I have is a porta-potti with a 2 gallon water tank and a 3 gallon waste tank...all self contained. No thru-hull fittings, plumbing, etc. It lasts as long as any cruise we have taken. We dump it into any available toilet ashore, with permission of course. Very simple. Having a wife a
Our 1977 CD27, like many of that vintage I guess, came with a LECTRASAN sewage treatment system hooked up to the standard marine head. (We acquired the boat this fall.)
This year we want to make a fully compliant setup and install a regular holding tank (with deck fitting, Y valve and Whale Gusher or equiv. pump)...
Have some of you done this already?
There isn't much practical room under the port V berth where the small LectraSan tank lives/lived. How about a 10-13 gal.tank under the port settee in the main cabin?
Would be very interested in some solutions arrived at by more experienced CD27 owners!
Many thanks,
Yves
1977 CD27 "Alphee"
millerfam5050@worldnet.att.net
-
Pete Asensio N1CWD
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
Al:
You are welcome to come check out the installation on our
CD 28 powerboat (1987) anytime... I bet the cabin is a close
copy of what you have on your CD 27.
Slip I-43
Pilot's Point South Yard
Westbrook, CT
Pete
pase@uconect.net
You are welcome to come check out the installation on our
CD 28 powerboat (1987) anytime... I bet the cabin is a close
copy of what you have on your CD 27.
Slip I-43
Pilot's Point South Yard
Westbrook, CT
Pete
pase@uconect.net
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Yves Feder W1UX
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
Bill and everyone, MANY thanks for your thoughts and contributions!!
Bill,
Hey, that's great intelligence! I don't have the defender catalog; wasn't aware of this tank. Glad to hear that you've been stench-free. I think a lot of my boat's problem was the improper hoses (non-smooth interior).
Jeff
Bill, your solution sounds absolutely excellent and I thank you for the information. Sounds like the best plan. Glad a fitted tank with a slanted side will make it under the port V berth so I can save the undersettee space in the main cabin - also didn't want to get rid of the big water tank in the bow space.
Additionally a lot of sources I've read (and consulted verbally) are definitive about flexible tanks leaking and stinking after the first season!!! Careful about using a flex tank as a holding tank
Thanks again!!
I did have some fume problems with the LectraSan, and I know I would have gotten into trouble with the old setup in some harbors, like Block, etc.....
saltwater@tinyradio.com
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David Brownlee
Re: Head Plumbing Question re. CD27
Here's what we have in our 1980 CD 27; it works:
We have the under-the-port-berth installation that several have described--apparently installed at the time of construction. When we bought the boat, it had a burnt-out macerator pump, intended to move waste from the tank to a through hull located aft, on the starboard side under the sink. This involves a hose that runs up and over the engine. I replaced the defunct electric pump with a hand pump (Guzzler or Gusher--I forget which), but since we live wihin the capacity of the tank and pump out at the dock, I've never had to use it. The Y-valve is wired (and soldered) in the legal, closed position.
We did have a nasty smell problem for the first season with the boat, and we discovered that this was entirely due to the build-up of unvented gas in the tank that forced its way into the cabin atmosphere. The solution was to reroute the vent hose. The original installation led the hose forward from the tank, through the area under the bunk, and into the compartment behind the head. From there it proceeded under the forward berths, and finally up to a vent in the forepeak. This low-lying route collected liquid when the boat heeled to port and effectively closed the vent. After two tries I got the routing right. I now lead the vent hose straight up from the tank fitting (which is at the forward, upper, outboard corner of the tank) into the storage compartment that is outboard of the bunk, then into the compartment behind the head and straight up to the hull/deck joint. The hose then follows the hull/deck joint forward to the original vent in the forepeak. I fastened the hose in place with plastic clips that are bolted onto the back side of the deck liner flange.
It's genuinely odor free, even with what I think are the original hoses. And we live on the boat for two weeks at a time in summer.
(The temporary solution, which does not involve moving any hose, is to detach the vent hose from the vent in the forepeak whenever a build-up of gas is forcing its way into the cabin. Blow hard into the hose to move the waste that is filling the vent line back into the tank. This also works. But there is a down side to it.)
Ann and David Brownlee
"Windrush" CD 27 #181
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
We have the under-the-port-berth installation that several have described--apparently installed at the time of construction. When we bought the boat, it had a burnt-out macerator pump, intended to move waste from the tank to a through hull located aft, on the starboard side under the sink. This involves a hose that runs up and over the engine. I replaced the defunct electric pump with a hand pump (Guzzler or Gusher--I forget which), but since we live wihin the capacity of the tank and pump out at the dock, I've never had to use it. The Y-valve is wired (and soldered) in the legal, closed position.
We did have a nasty smell problem for the first season with the boat, and we discovered that this was entirely due to the build-up of unvented gas in the tank that forced its way into the cabin atmosphere. The solution was to reroute the vent hose. The original installation led the hose forward from the tank, through the area under the bunk, and into the compartment behind the head. From there it proceeded under the forward berths, and finally up to a vent in the forepeak. This low-lying route collected liquid when the boat heeled to port and effectively closed the vent. After two tries I got the routing right. I now lead the vent hose straight up from the tank fitting (which is at the forward, upper, outboard corner of the tank) into the storage compartment that is outboard of the bunk, then into the compartment behind the head and straight up to the hull/deck joint. The hose then follows the hull/deck joint forward to the original vent in the forepeak. I fastened the hose in place with plastic clips that are bolted onto the back side of the deck liner flange.
It's genuinely odor free, even with what I think are the original hoses. And we live on the boat for two weeks at a time in summer.
(The temporary solution, which does not involve moving any hose, is to detach the vent hose from the vent in the forepeak whenever a build-up of gas is forcing its way into the cabin. Blow hard into the hose to move the waste that is filling the vent line back into the tank. This also works. But there is a down side to it.)
Ann and David Brownlee
"Windrush" CD 27 #181
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu