New Shaft

Discussions about Cape Dory, Intrepid and Robinhood sailboats and how we use them. Got questions? Have answers? Provide them here.

Moderator: Jim Walsh

User avatar
Cathy Monaghan
Posts: 3503
Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 08:17
Location: 1986 CD32 Realization #3, Rahway, NJ, Raritan Bay -- CDSOA Member since 2000. Greenline 39 Electra
Contact:

Removal of coupling.....

Post by Cathy Monaghan »

We just replaced the cutless bearing on our boat (CD32), and while we were at it we replaced the stuffing box with a PYI PSS shaft seal and added a DriveSaver. We had to have the shaft shortened by an inch and rekeyed to accommodate the DriveSaver. Everything is a VERY tight fit back there.

Regarding the coupling, what's not coming apart -- the shaft coupling from the transmission coupling or the shaft coupling from the shaft?

On our boat we sprayed everything with WD40 everyday for a week before any of the nut/bolts would move. You can also use something like PB Blaster. But 1 or 2 squirts aint gonna do the job. So it'll probably take you several days of squirting penetrant on everything.

After we were finally able to remove all of the nuts/bolts/set screws and separate the shaft coupling from the transmission coupling, here's how we got the shaft coupling separated from the shaft.

Go to Home Depot, Lowes or the nearest hardware store and get some long bolts, about 6" in length. Make sure you have nuts that'll fit the bolts and that the bolts will fit through the bolt-holes in the couplings. You'll also need something to use as a spacer. If you have a 1" shaft, the spacer should be narrower than an inch. So a 3/4" OD pipe fitting (like a nipple), that's 3 or 4 inches long will do nicely. Don't use anything wider than that since it has to be able to fit inside the coupling without interfering with the key. You can also use something like a long wrench socket. A handfull of spare nutsand washers that fit or can slide over the long bolts will come in handy too.
  • 1. Loosen the nut on the stuffing box.

    2. Push the shaft back far enough for you to get the pipe or long wrench socket between it and the transmission coupling. Make sure you line it up so that it butts up against the shaft only (no overlap on the coupling) but closer to the edge opposite the keyway.

    3. Push the shaft, with the pipe back up against the transmission coupling.

    4. Using the long bolts and their nuts, bolt the two couplings back together making sure that the pipe between them doesn't move. Your contraption will look like this:

    <center><img src="http://www.shaftseal.com/pictures/psssh ... upling.gif">
    A. Transmission
    B. Spacer
    C. Bolts
    D. Shaft Coupling
    E. Transmission Coupling
    F. Key
    G. Shaft </center>


    5. Squirt all around the coupling with WD40, PB Blaster (or whatever penetrant you have) one more time and let it soak in for 10 minutes or so.

    6. Tighten each nut slowy, one at a time, only about 1 or 2 turns (NOT MORE THAN THAT) each. You need to do it this way so that you don't bend/brake the bolts or warp or damage the couplings. As you tighten down on the nuts, the couplings will slowly move closer together but the shaft won't be able to move due to the pipe.

    7. As the couplings get closer together, you may have to add spacers (spare nuts and/or washers) to the bolts since they'll start to interfere with the transmissioin. So just unbolt everything, add the spacers to the bolts, put the pipe back in place and bolt everything back together. Then continue tightening the bolts as mentioned in step 6.

    8. If the pipe or wrench socket isn't long enough, you may need to add some spacers behind or in front of it as well. So you'll need to take everything apart and slide another socket or some nuts and/or washers taped together in there. Bolt everything back together and start tightening the nuts again as mentioned in step 6.
It's a very slow process, but they will come apart using this method.

Anyway, here are some photos of our project. Unlike the CD28, which has a bronze stern tube, the CD32 has a fiberglass stern tube. Where the tube exits the boat in the aperture, the tube was originally faired with epoxy completely covering the set screws for the cutless bearing. So I had to grind the epoxy away to get at the old screws. There were 4 holes in the tube for set screws but I think that only 2 had been installed. Only 1 was left, the 2nd screw appeared to have been pulverized. The inside of the stern tube was also damaged where that screw used to be.

<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... .jpg"><img width="540" src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... 083781.jpg">
Note the wide "hump" around the opening of the stern tube. That's all epoxy and had to be ground away. Note also the damage inside the tube. The repair to the inside of the tube is another story.</a>

<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... .jpg"><img width="540" src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... 233854.jpg">
The repaired tube with the new cutless bearing in place. The outside of the tube has been built up with epoxy to accommodate longer/larger set screws. We also drilled and tapped for 3 instead of just 2 set screws. You can see one of them in this photo.</a>

<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... .jpg"><img width="540" src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... 233862.jpg">
The reconditioned shaft in place. Afterwards, I applied two more thick coats of epoxy to build up a new "hump".</a>

<a href="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... .jpg"><img width="540" src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... 253865.jpg">
The new PYI PSS shaft seal and new DriveSaver installed. Note the tight fit.</a>




Hope this helps,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Last edited by Cathy Monaghan on Jun 10th, '08, 09:27, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Russell
Posts: 2473
Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:14
Location: s/v Lady PaulineCape Dory 36 #117

Re: Today's progress

Post by Russell »

JohnB wrote: I like that split flange that Russell used. It makes sense to me. This whole thing I'm messing with now seems like overkill. I know we don't want our prop shafts coming loose... but honestly there has got to be a better way.
John, there is some interesting discussion on the SSCA discussion board right now that gets into couplings. The thread started about installation of a PSS, but lots of interesting points about couplings have come up. Considering what you are facing now, its a good read. Be warned, people on SSCA can be long winded and love to debate, but its often educational. Here is the thread:

http://ssca.org/DiscBoard/viewtopic.php ... highlight=

After reading this myself over the past couple days, I have done even more research into couplings and if doing it again, even though my choice of coupling is far superior IMO to the traditional kind like the one your wrestling with now, there seem to be some even nicer options (if you have the $$$ of course!).

The problem with mine is the length, to accomidate 6 bolts on the split to create enough pressure to keep the shaft from working lose, it takes some length, And one thing no CDs have behind the tranny is much length to work with. I repowered with a modern engine which freed up a ton of space to allow a PSS and this coupling (with zero room to spare), but on origonal engines on all CD models, not much to work with. Anyways, a coupling like mine may actually not work for you due to its length.

But, for more money (and less length), I see some of these vetus couplings are insanely slick. Take a look at this page:

http://www.chandleryworld.co.uk/acatalo ... lings.html

That "type 6" coupling has an insanely cool clamping mechanism! And the length space it would take would be relatively small. But I like more the Bullflex coupling on that page, it uses the clamp style like the one I have but is also a flexible coupling (which mine is not). But, price.... ouch.

And hey, I know how it is to dive into a project, only to realize when the no turning back point has been hit, that you could have waited! But keep your head up, when its all done you will be more confident with your systems and glad you did it. Just dont do what I did, and go through exactly what you are doing right now, then just 1 year later repower the boat and do it all again, that hurts when I think about it.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
User avatar
Zeida
Posts: 600
Joined: May 27th, '05, 07:10
Location: 1982 CD33 "Bandolera II" Hull #73Key Biscayne-Miami, Florida
Contact:

Post by Zeida »

Hi, all... For years, I've been wishing I had a Flexible Coupler, but other more pressing needs have come first. So I've had to live with what I think is a misalingment problem for many years. I've had to rebuild my Hurth 100 tranny once, and would hate to have to do it again.

I Just looked at the Link for the Vetus flex couplers that Russell posted, and I can not take those things off my mind. My old Universal 5424 Model 30 -with just three motor mounts!!! :cry: vibrates more than a 4-mounted one, but never fails to start, so I know the engine is good. But the lack of a perfect alignment keeps giving me worries. However, as you all know, on the CD-33 there is EVEN LESS space in there for anything, short of repowering with a smaller footprint engine, like the Beta. (Not for the time being).

If any of those Vetus Flexible couplers could REPLACE my solid INFLEXIBLE one, -it is about 3-1/2 inches long- without too much trouble, this would be ideal for me. Is there a VETUS marine distributor in the U.S. with whom I could check this? From reading the info on the link, the Type Uniflex and Type 6 look awsome, but my shaft is 1 inch - and their specs do not mention 1 inch.
The Type Bullflex does specify one model for 1 inch shaft, but it looks a bit longer than the other two.

<a href="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... .jpg"><img width="540" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... 9.jpg"></a>

This is my current setup down there... I would love to replace the black coupler with any one of those Vetus, but don't know if they will fit. Any one knows where I can get some more specific info on them? I love what Kathy has done with her new drive, but I don't know if I will have enough space for a PSS dripless to replace my regular Spartan stuffing box. Any suggestions?

<a href="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... .jpg"><img width=540" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... 1.jpg"></a>

The 4 bolts that connect the coupler to the tranny are not in yet.

<a href="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... .jpg"><img width="540" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... 9.jpg"></a>

I replaced my old bronze pitted shaft, with a new SS.
Zeida
CDSOA Member
User avatar
Russell
Posts: 2473
Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:14
Location: s/v Lady PaulineCape Dory 36 #117

Post by Russell »

Wow! That wear on your shaft is pretty drastic.

As for removing the stern tube, do they feel it is so far out of line that adjusting the engine mounts for alignment will not be enough? It would be suprising to me if it was that far out of line, but I guess not impossible. You have come this far and gone through a lot to get this shaft out, and since you are replacing the shaft too, it is probably sound advice to go ahead and pull the stern tube as well and make sure all is perfect. Why skip anything when you are already this invested?
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
User avatar
Zeida
Posts: 600
Joined: May 27th, '05, 07:10
Location: 1982 CD33 "Bandolera II" Hull #73Key Biscayne-Miami, Florida
Contact:

Post by Zeida »

Maybe the engine and drive shaft were never aligned pr0perly? Through the years, that is what happens. FWIW, I do not think it is a factory problem.
Zeida
CDSOA Member
User avatar
Stan W.
Posts: 487
Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:33
Location: Montgomery 17, Duxbury, MA

How are your motor mounts?

Post by Stan W. »

Broken motor mounts might cause damage like that and the rear mount on the intake side is known to fail prematurely.

Volvo powered CD28s were equipped with a drivesaver from the factory. The plastic is rock hard and only compensates for very small degrees of misalignment. As you probably know, you are supposed to remove the drivesaver when you do the alignment.

Anything is possible, but IMHO it is highly unlikely that your "stern tube" is misaligned. I put stern tube in quotes because CD28s use a bronze fitting with an integral stuffing box instead of the usual arrangement. Make sure anyone who helps diagnose your problems understands that.
User avatar
Cathy Monaghan
Posts: 3503
Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 08:17
Location: 1986 CD32 Realization #3, Rahway, NJ, Raritan Bay -- CDSOA Member since 2000. Greenline 39 Electra
Contact:

Re: Worn shaft on CD 28 - need stern tube advice!!

Post by Cathy Monaghan »

JohnB wrote:With some experienced help and the the right tools the shaft is now separated from the flange.

The shaft is very worn at the stuffing box area and needs to be replaced.

I was told that the wear is due to the engine and shaft not being lined up correctly and that the reason that the drive saver was installed was probably to allow for the misalignment. It is being suggested that I remove the stern tube to check for ware on it and possibly to change it's angel. Is it possible that the angle of the stern tube is too radical? That would be a pretty big oops when they manufactured it.

<img src="http://www.thebaillies.net/jstark/CD28/images/shaft.jpg">
Hi John,

You align the engine to the shaft, not the other way around. So if any mistakes were made, it was during engine alignment.

The rubber cushioning of the mounts compresses with time resulting in the need for periodic realignment. It sounds like that was probably never done.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
User avatar
Cathy Monaghan
Posts: 3503
Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 08:17
Location: 1986 CD32 Realization #3, Rahway, NJ, Raritan Bay -- CDSOA Member since 2000. Greenline 39 Electra
Contact:

Post by Cathy Monaghan »

Hi John,

I sure hope everything works out for you and that you can get your projects finished so that you can get some sailing time in this year.

Our boat was just launched yesterday, hopefully we'll have it ready in time to make the trip to Oyster Bay for the fireworks on July 4th.

No hurry on the catalog. Send it when you're ready.

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Post Reply